A Model Boat Builder Paints Breathtaking, Realist Maritime Landscapes: Meet Artist Steve Rogers

I have with me artist, Steve Rogers. Thanks for coming in today. Oh, you're welcome, Jordan. I'm looking at this piece behind me and I love it. First of all, because it, I think this is your C C bags painting. Um, as evidenced by the sea bags, mean sign in the background here. One of the reasons I love it is as you are. And I were talking about, I love the ocean. I love Maine. And even though you didn't grow up in Maine or on the ocean, you also share a love of the ocean. I absolutely do. Where I grew up was I was grew up in a farm and we were in lovely rolling Hills and gesture county. And there was no ocean anywhere around me. And my parents would take us to ocean city, New Jersey for vacations. There weren't a lot of them, but it was just a thrill to see the water, the bay and the marshes and the ocean. And so that kind of hooked me and I've loved it ever since. Did your parents have a connection to the water? Why was it that they wanted to go to ocean city with you? Because everybody in Eastern Pennsylvania goes to ocean city, basically it's a, then you get into Lancaster county, which is in the middle of Nao, go down to Delmarva, to a robe with an ocean city, Maryland. It's just, it's just a pattern. We all spend, you know, um, a couple hours on the Schuylkill expressway, you know, that was years ago, of course. And I think you're describing something that is universal, this, this kind of migration towards water, that many people in many places experience. I suspect that's why a lot of people, uh, come to Maine because of the water. I think it's subliminal, you know, it's just, uh, in your, uh, in your genes. And, um, it certainly in mine, I love it. That's kind of like the fish that swim up river. There's something in them that causes them to keep going back to the source and that's Why they're doing it. They just, Yeah. And I guess we're just like fish Probably more than we think Probably more than we think. Yes. So looking at this piece right here, um, tell me what it was about this particular boat that really caught your eye and caused you to want to focus on it for a piece. I think it was less, the boat was less the subject concern than just the whole environment of the water and, and the peer behind it. And the shapes of the, of, of this images reflected in the water. Uh, this is not the loveliest boat there, but, um, I had painted another one that was just classic, old style, 32 foot working lobster boat. And, uh, this was my next choice. It was, you know, had just enough interest. It didn't have the, the green trim on it, but the green trim is pretty common. And, and I, I use it a lot. Why is that? I see it a lot, But is there something about green trim or is, I don't know, You know, in the Chesapeake, um, there's just some colors you don't use. You'll never see blue on a boat, maybe dark blue, but, uh, decks are often light green trim is light green or black. Uh, there's just some colors that, uh, Waterman and the builders like to use. I'll have to be paying attention to that during the next boating season and kind of see, see what you're talking about. I agree with you that this piece, the reflection is particularly important, especially in the foreground of the painting. And, and I know that structure for you is important. Yeah. Um, um, one of the well-known Freud categories, I think, um, so I like details and I spend time on them and, and I go through quite a routine with my square and my level to make sure that the reflected, uh, item is, is directly below the thing it's, it's, you know, reflecting. And, um, so there's a little bit of technique to it, as much as art. And the other interesting thing about reflections is the reflection sees things you don't know, particularly if you look at a doc, uh, and a reflection of it, you'll see the underside of the doc and the reflection. You will not see that from where you're standing. It's just, you have a different point of view. I've always found it interesting when I'm down by the water. Is it the idea that it's this continuation of sea and sky broken only on certain days when it's very calm by the horizon line and just, it gives you this sense of, or of this infinite space. A lot of times, it's just something that artists learned that the furthest of the horizon that you can see always reflects what's immediately above it. And then as it comes towards you, then it progressively reflects the things higher and higher up. So when something is right in front of you, when you look at it, sometimes you can even see through the reflection to the bottom below. And then when, when we, as artists learn to paint that, you know, uh, that's when it really starts to be realistic, I would think that would be an interesting challenge because it's so layered. Absolutely. It's took me a long time to be good at it. And, uh, and then the other thing you notice is that as, as, when you're looking at reflective water and reflections on it, the closer it gets to you, the darker it gets Because, um, the light is reflecting off it at a different angle, and it's not all going into your eyes. So, uh, when you look at something directly in front of you and you look straight down, you often see the bottom. So with that many layers and angles and things to take into consideration, I would think that that there's a need for doing this over and over and over again, before you get to a place where you start to feel that maybe it does actually represent what you would like it to. I I've, I've been, um, uh, full-time professional artists for almost 30 years. Uh, I have painted all my life, not always, well, it's a process. And, you know, I'm, I'm finally at the point where I'm comfortable with what I'm doing. And a lot of things are just intuitive now, you know, I don't have to think really hard about them. I just see a scene. I like it. Um, it appeals to me and I know what I held up, how to paint it. And I changed things, you know, um, often, you know, the boat's not in front of the place where it really was. And, um, there's probably a foreground that wasn't there before. Uh, the sky's different, you know, these are all things you just put together. Just appeals to me For many years, you taught, um, a very different sort of skill, also artistic, but with more of a kind of a craft element to it. Oh, well, the, um, I was trying to think how many years I taught up there it's, uh, with the wooden boat school in Brooklyn vain. Um, they asked me about 20 years ago. There had been an article in wooden boat magazine about my work and, uh, and, uh, rich Helsinger called me up and said, well, would you think about coming up and teaching? And I thought, no, there's a way to get to Maine and be paid for it. And, uh, it's room and board. And, uh, it's just a good deal. So, um, any excuse as far as I'm concerned, but I had no idea how much work it was the very first year that I taught the very first Monday that I taught at five o'clock when the class was over, I thought my brains had been sucked out of my head. It was an, it was exhausting. Uh, my came by the shop to pick me up and I couldn't have driven the car. I really was. Absolutely. I, you know, I have, I, at that moment in time, I just got a whole new appreciation for teachers. Uh, I just didn't real. And, you know, I'd made all the classic mistakes I gave the students choices, you know, and I didn't prepare materials ahead of time. I mean, you know, it's, there's a bunch of easy mistakes to make. And, uh, fortunately, you know, I figured some of that stuff out in the class got easier and easier. Uh, but I basically taught a, uh, uh, a simple boat that had a few wrinkles that made it, there was a little trick to, to building it. And, uh, it was a, a warden skiff, which doesn't sound like much, but it's an 18 foot sailboat from the outer banks in North Carolina. And I had a great plan done by Mike Alford of the Belfort maritime museum. And it was, um, just a really well done plan. All the details were there and it was easy for the students to see it, and then figuring out how to translate the plan into the model was something else. Uh, one year a friend of mine, um, walled and sell from a mystic Seaport. Uh, he also comes up and teaches every year. And, um, we both taught the same boat. I taught it as a model and he taught it as a full-size boat and he was in the next studio. And, uh, the student's work is going back and forth the whole time, lots in the process on both sides. Cause we were ahead of them time-wise we were making more progress, but you know, in the other studio it was the real thing. And so, um, his class was two weeks, you know, mine is one week. So, uh, we didn't get to see him finish it. But, uh, we had a big ceremony at the end of the week where we turned it over, you know, cause it was built up upside down and the bottom was applied and then we turned it over and then they started putting in the interior structures. But, uh, and the deal there was, I think if I remember correctly, um, the students, uh, drew lots to see who would, would be able to buy the boat and you had to pay the cost of materials. Yeah. Which was probably a thousand dollars. Cause you know, it was all beautiful white, Cedar, I don't know where they found it, but uh, they have guys up there, they know where it is and uh, it's all the best materials. What is it about wooden boats that keeps people so interested in learning how to build them? Um, I'm not sure I can put my finger on it. I just think maybe it's a connection with the past. You know, for me it's always been, um, you know, to appreciate the lives of the Waterman, the people that work on the water, you know, and what it was like. And you not really wasn't that long ago, you know, you're only talking to generation, maybe two generations, you know, so you're talking about your grandfather and um, the way that it changes, you know, um, you know, 40 years ago, a 32 foot lobster, but was fine. You know, you could just go out and work around your island or off shore. And now, you know, the lobsters, um, the temperature's very important to the lobsters and the Gulf of Maine is warming up. So they're not coming in and the numbers that they used to. So what do you do while you have to go further out? Well, that's more time consuming, you know, it's two and a half hours to get out to your traps and then you have to be out you're hauling 800 traps. And that takes a while. So now they're with bigger boats, well, bigger boats are more money, you know, and more equipment. And now it's overnight. It's just, everything is gotten more complicated. So maybe it's, so it's the connection to the past, but could it also be the simplicity? I think so. I think so. And I just love the craftsmanship involved in building the lobster boat. It's just, I, I can't say I honestly watched it being done, but I know how it's done. And I've been in a lot of shops where it was going on. I didn't get to stay to see the whole process, but, um, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's it's before computers and slide rules and, uh, calculators it's, it's all done by ratios and eyesight. It's just incredible. It kind of reminds me of the way that sailors used to navigate back before GPS and all the technology when they would use the stars and a really complicated, um, set of calculations to know how to get from point a to point B, but it works, It did work and, and uh, I think they used to have, uh, a little container of water and then I don't know what it was, but something ironed and it always aligned with the north star or the north. And, uh, yeah. And with that they could, they could navigate, I think I read an article, um, maybe it might've been in the post and, uh, so, uh, Italians, I have to be accept this, but the Vikings probably got here first and, uh, they, they have they've, they've discovered that and they've timed of Viking settlement up in Labrador to, uh, 1021 VC or a D or C. Now, I guess I'm interested in, you are F are kind of, you're such a ocean oriented individual, but you also spend some time in the air force. Yeah, well, you know, that was, um, when I was in college, we were, it was college. We were just oblivious to the fact that, um, when we graduated, we would be eligible for the draft and, you know, he didn't know what that was going to bring. Uh, they was just before numbers and all that kind of stuff. So, uh, the draft board in my county did not consider my degrees in anthropology. I loved it. Um, but it's not considered a science. It was not then considered a science. And so, uh, it dawned on me that when I graduated, you know, I was going to be, uh, you know, liable to be drafted. So it just seemed to make sense to enlist and at least have some control over what was going to happen. So I was very fortunate. I got accepted at, uh, uh, air force OTs and went to Texas like everybody else and did basic training. And then, um, spent the next four years, uh, in aircraft maintenance work, which is very technical. And, um, and you know, when I, when I finally got out, um, I knew what I was doing. It seems to be the way it works. You know, it takes you the three, four years to, um, learn how to do the job you you're in and then you leave. But it was, it was fascinating. And I learned a lot and most of it from some great senior NCO that worked for me, um, I don't know if enough, uh, recognition has given to the senior NCO is in the services. They are amazing people. Uh, one of them told me one time, he said, you know, we get the officers we deserve, you know, they come into the service, they get their brown bar, they're a Lieutenant and we lie to them and we tell them wrong things and we make them look bad, but you know, then they make first Lieutenant and they figured some things out and then they make captain and they know even more stuff. And then they can really mess with us. So he said, that's, that's why we have to change the way we do things. I know you also have an interest in leadership. So what you're talking to me about right now kind of reminds me of that fact. Tell me about why, why is leadership to you important? Uh, I mean, I just think it's fair to do your fair share of serving on commissions and stuff like that. Um, you know, it's not like I think artists should give back, but I do, but, um, I think anybody should take the opportunity to serve in a city government, um, on a commission, on an ad hoc committee. Um, I think it would help people appreciate how hard governance is. I just don't think they realize, I mean, I've had several friends that, you know, one the mayors and councilmen and stuff, and they're always wrestling with competing interests. And, uh, somebody is always going to be upset, you know, are they dealing really hard? Things like the sewer plant has a problem. It has to be fixed. And, uh, I just think if, if more people took their turn at governance, uh, they would have a little more tolerance for when government doesn't work that well. Um, I did, I think three, two terms on a local arts organization. And, and I enjoyed that because it was one, I was a member of and, and I was very glad that they were there. They did a lot of nice things for me. So I didn't mind serving on the board for awhile. So yeah, I think, uh, participating, I don't think leadership is hard. It's just, you should do it. So you understand it. I think the term Luca Luca comes from the military. I think it's volatility, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. And that's essentially what I think a lot of people within the military field acknowledged that the world is. And I think we all are starting to understand that that's actually what the, the greater world is at this point. Have you found that to be so over the years, have you seen that the world has perhaps become a place that is more, uh, uncertain? Um, probably I'm an optimist and, you know, been over in Europe a number of times and, uh, I've always enjoyed it. Um, I've been to France a couple of times, Italy, a couple of times, Portugal, uh, three times I love Portugal and, um, I just find people pretty much the same and they want about the same things. I do love the food. That's, that's the big benefit. Um, no, I'm optimistic. And I think, you know, I think we're going to be fine. Well, I want to be clear. I like you. I am a, an optimist. I would consider myself to be by choice. Um, and I think sometimes it's important to kind of acknowledge that things are complex and also be willing to find the strengths in a situation. But it sounds like what you're saying is you're finding more similarities when you go to different places than you are differences. I think, yeah, there, the differences aren't near as significant as the similarities and, and some of the different ways people approach things are interesting to see. And, um, you know, you might get phone calls on this, but this, uh, idea of American exceptionalism, I don't, I just don't see it. And it's a shame if it interferes with, um, looking at the way other companies, uh, countries and societies deal with their problems, you know, we can learn a lot. Uh, it's almost like, uh, ignoring the concept of best practices. You know, when you look around the country and you have an issue, you, you can, you can look into other organizations just like you, if it's a state or a town or whatever, and find a really good solution to your problem. And, um, we shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel time after time after time. Yeah. That's a, that's a really good point. And I think looking at the events over the past, or we're heading into two years now, um, related to COVID, it's become really clear that even from a public health standpoint, we need to get a little bit better about understanding what is working well in some places that could be replicated in, in others. Do you think, do you have thoughts on that? Well, I know I've, every time I see a story on TV and they're showing graphs, you know, main looks like they have really done a good job with this. And I don't know if it's people more disciplined and, and accept the fact that they have to deal with with something that's real and something that's dangerous and people I've lost two friends to it. So, uh, I don't question how serious it is. I don't think it's some conspiracy, you know, made up by other people somewhere. I just, you know, it is a pandemic, it does kill people and you have to respond to it with, with, uh, uh, science and do best practices. And, you know, the best practices, aren't that hard to figure out. They, there were two cities, uh, during the 1918 pandemic, Philadelphia and St. Louis and Philadelphia didn't do very much. And they had hellacious, uh, fatalities from it. But St. Louis made people wear masks and social distance, cause that's all they could do. They didn't really have any other way to deal with it and they suffered much less. So that's a clue. And so, um, I think that you just have to accept that some things are not going to like, but you have to do them anyway. Well, given that you have an undergraduate degree in anthropology and you are doing things that are very much connected to the past, it sounds like to you, the historical perspective is really very important to consider. Oh yeah, I would. I enjoy going places that are, that haven't changed a lot, you know? Cause you get this and I'm almost, um, I shouldn't be shocked by how fast things are changing, but, um, you know, I've lived long enough to, to, uh, have seen places like an example. There is, um, uh, a little town, it's a small town. I mean, it's, it's a Dharma SCADA sized and it's, it's on the, on the coast of Virginia on the, on the Delmarva peninsula and it's it's watermen and, you know, crabbers and clammers and stuff like that. And, um, I used to go down there and the waterfront would be the original waterfront. I mean a lot of ride and pilings, old buildings, um, even older boats, you know? Um, and well then the state came in and, you know, pulled all that stuff out, cleaned it all up, put it all new docs and, and new bulkhead and, and all that stuff was gone, you know? And, uh, there was no boats in the grass anymore. Uh, it's sorta disappointing. Yeah. That's I can see that, that he know when we move forward with, on the one hand might be progress. It does take away some of the history that we've experienced and an evidence that people came before us Here. Um, so there's, there was a in south Bristol goes from the mainland to, to rather spread island and it used to be a swing bridge and no, it's not there it's gone. They it's a whole new bridge. You know, it looks modern. It looks like the thing over, uh, uh, oh, not the one over the Hudson river and New York. And anyway, it's, it's just doesn't to me, it doesn't have the artistic and interesting look of the other one. And there was a family that ran it, you know, and I don't know where they are now. Who does that? It's a little bit like the lighthouses. Yeah, yeah. It is. We have to, and, and Lewis, um, of the east end light and, and the, um, the Harbor refuse light and, um, the, the east end light is, is not used now. Um, but there's, uh, fortunately for us, there's a nonprofit that's taken over management and maintenance of it and they have tours. It's, it's, it's interesting. It's, it's great. It's a great subject to paint. And then the further one out, uh, the Harbor refuse light is, uh, I think that still works but needs work. It's pretty well beat up, cause it's just out there on a, on a Jedi and, uh, it's completely exposed all the way around, like the light houses here. You've been a member of the Portland art gallery, I believe since 2018, I think that's right. Has it been important for you to experience that particular community of artists? Well, I've always enjoyed, uh, I've been part of two openings and, uh, I love the work of the other artists. I enjoy being around artists period. Uh, I'm in a small group at home. Um, I enjoy seeing the other work that they bring in. Uh, I mean, I don't any time I'm here, I, I come to the gallery and walk around and look at at the other artists work. Um, and, and it's, there's some really fine artists in the gallery. I'm really proud to be there. And it's a broad range of different styles and different photo PSI. I mean, there are quite a few people who, who do have a focus on the ocean, um, and are more representational, but then we also have people who are very abstract. We have sculptors. And I wonder sometimes, um, as a painter, when you look at other people who, who have their own art, that's so different than yours, does it ever make you wonder how do, how do we as artists kind of get pulled in one direction or the other? Um, you know, I think it's just simply a matter of what, what you want to paint and what you enjoy doing. And, uh, um, I'm in a group of professional artists at home and I'm in the minority. Uh, there's, there's 13 of us and two of us are representational painters, everybody else's abstract or, um, various derivatives of that. And, um, you know, w w the whole goal is we critique each other's work and that can be painful. It's. Um, but it's usually worthwhile. Um, I have learned that when I'll put a piece up and, uh, one person will say, oh, that doesn't read. Right. You know, to me, you know, uh, I just cringe. I really do, you know, I, I try not to show it, but I'm not perfect. And, uh, you know, I, I just, but that being said, when I go home and I take some of their suggestions, the painting ends up being successful and sells. So, um, I've just reached the conclusion. I'm going to listen. It's a good thing. And they are UN you know, simply because, uh, these other artists paint abstract and, um, the various forms of art that doesn't mean they're not artists they're there. And they understand all of the rules that I should be following and, uh, not like rules, but I mean, just the things I should be doing. And, and I've gotten great advice. I've been speaking with artists to Steve Rogers. I encourage you to go to the Portland art gallery to experience his work in person also potentially come to one of our openings at which Steve may be there. So it'd be fun for you to meet him. It's, he's obviously a very interesting person, as you can tell from our conversation, also go to the website where you can see more of his work. Steve it's really been a great conversation. Thank you for coming in Today. I've enjoyed it.