Art Consultant Returns to Maine to Support Artists: Phoebe Cole

Today I have with me in the studio art consultant Phoebe Cole. Nice to have you here today. I'm really happy to be here. So I'm really intrigued by your background because you have a lot of connections to art and the arts. Um, but you have an undergraduate degree in Arts administration? Yeah, arts Administration. It's funny, it's actually traditionally more of a grad degree. Um, and I was lucky to sort of snap it up as an undergrad. Um, from my perspective, um, Simmons College is where I went to school, and they are a great phenomenal liberal arts program, and I always knew I loved art. I did photography, it was my minor, but something about the idea of combining sort of the business of art communications, um, and all of that together into something I could sink my teeth into in the administrative side was, was really exciting. So I took that as my major and have really found a home in that field, um, since. Yeah. Do you find that a lot of artists have a background that enables them to understand the business side of things, or is that, um, somewhat unique? It's totally a combination. A lot of artists find that they love it and really enjoy doing it. And then I know a lot of other artists who really would rather that be left to someone else or, you know, find that their creative energy is best spent, you know, making the work and not necessarily marketing it or understanding, you know, some of the just finer market nuances, which are complicated. And, um, I, I've really found that that's something I love to, to work on. Well then talk to me a little bit about that. Talk about these sort of complicated, finer nuances of the market that you find so interesting. Well, to me, um, art is such a, um, beautiful, interesting and specific field, right? And once you try to put this monetary value onto it, it gets tricky. And I think especially working in my field and on the work I do with pph Fine Arts, it's, we walk this fine line where we're trying to find something that is a beautiful, um, accompaniment to someone's life, to their home, but also a great investment. Something that they feel like is, um, going to really sort of complete their, their home and also give, um, give them this benefit of living with a beautiful object. And it's, so, I think it's, it's really fun to, um, play that sort of puzzle of what, what makes sense for folks and what, where they wanna spend their money and how they want to, um, bring, bring artwork into their home. I'm always interested by the idea of the value of art and artwork, because I think there's obviously kind of a subjective value that hopefully most, if not all people have, but then there is somewhat more of an objective value placed on art often, which I wonder if that's the, the trickiness that you're talking about, because maybe it's not always so clear. I think that is, um, I am very open that I think people should react to art and, and collect in a way that is something that they love. And in a sense, you wanna put value aside, but you also want to, um, just be smart about it and, and acquire things that you are going to, um, love. And, you know, I think we should always think of artists as sort of heirlooms or things that you'd want keep in your home and invest in and, and continue to keep close. So that's sort of how I think of it. Um, and it is, it is tricky and I think once you get into the really larger blue chip area of it, it gets even, even crazier. But especially when I'm here in Maine, I, I find it's very easy for people to find work that they connect with. That's a great investment that they also, um, just wanna love and live with. I know you do work with the Portland Art Gallery and other art galleries. So when you're working with an art gallery and you're working with a client, um, describe kind of the process of how the interactions take place and how you are able to find something that maybe is at the Portland Art Gallery that's the right fit for a client that lives either locally or somewhere else. Definitely. Um, I think that's sort of our, the mo that we we work with is to just always have eyes on different types of work, different artists work, what different galleries are showing, you know, popping into Portland Art Gallery or any, you know, Alice Gavin Gallery, any of the galleries in, um, in Maine is such an amazing local way to see great art. And so it's sort of like constantly, you know, eating with your eyes, continuing to take in work. Um, and then once you have a conversation with a client, you sort of understand maybe it's their home, maybe it's what their interests are, maybe it's, you know, a connection from their childhood, things that they are interested in. Um, and then you sort of draw on that visual rolodex of, okay, I remember seeing this at this time. Oh, what about that artist? You know, you can really pull, um, and then, you know, weave together a, a grouping of work that you can share with a client, get their feedback, and then it's, it's actually very natural. It sort of just develops, develops from there. Um, and then, you know, we obviously draw on the support of the gallery to have these incredible relationships with artists and to, um, bring forth great work, which we get to then share. And are some people more interested in the relationship with the artist and wanting to know the artist and know the story behind the art. Um, and others may be less interested in that, just wanna pick up like, oh, this is the one that matches my couch, or this is the one that's the right fit for my interests. Do you find that there's different types of, um, ways that people connect with the Art? Definitely. Um, yeah. I, I, myself, you know, value artist relationship sort of above all, like working directly with artists is another thread that I've kept sort of throughout my career. And I think we see that all the time. Some clients want to do that, some clients engage in a studio visit, or perhaps they even commission an artwork directly from an artist. You know, those things are a huge, huge asset and value to them, and they really love to dig into that. And then in the same way, you know, some people just as feel something is aesthetically aligned with what they want and it's, you know, it's a simple process. They, they know. Um, so we, we get a total, a total mix of that for sure. How do people find, um, the business that you're in? Do they, is is, is Powell, uh, widely known within the community, or is it something that's kind of word of mouth? Yeah, I would say Greater Boston community, absolutely. Powell is, um, very, very well known Hadley and, and the rest of, um, our team are super, um, well connected, which is great. Um, and it's been fun for me to sort of dig back into that Boston community. Um, and then, you know, in terms of up here more sort of in the north northeast, that's part of what I'm looking to build and have been building is sort of just expanding our artist network, um, and gallery network up here. And it's been great to sort of introduce Powell to, um, perhaps some, some galleries who we haven't worked with before or, um, other avenues. So yeah. You originally are from Maine. You grew up in Dan Mascota, and then you went away and spent time elsewhere, and I believe most recently New York made the decision to come back again not too long ago, 2021. How has that been for you? Uh, it's been, it's been really great. Um, I, yeah, I went to school in Boston and then, um, spent about seven years in New York working, you know, in, in the arts. And, and that's an experience that I wouldn't really trade for anything. It was so, um, great. And I worked with some amazing organizations there, um, and really sort of like cut my teeth in, in a sense. But, um, coming back has, has been a, a really a change. You know, I grew up in the mid coast, so now I'm in Portland. That's a big change. And there's so much in Portland. And, um, I'm here with my partner who's never lived in Maine before, so it's fun to explore and, you know, come at it sort of from his lens. So that's different than someone who's, who spent a good amount of their life here. Where's your partner From? He's from Rhode Island. So are you hearing any either differences or similarities between the two states? Oh, I don't know. I think there's the classic New England, you know, oh, the drivers are this or the, this, you know, there's, there's some fun things like that. Um, and then I think he's enjoying just a little more snow, a little more weather than, um, they get up in, up in Rhode or down in Rhode Island. And what caused you to make the decision to move back here? We've been thinking about it, um, on and off me because it's just sort of the draw of Maine. It's where I'm, I'm, uh, with a lot of family and, and as well as friends here. Um, for him it, a job sort of cemented the move. Um, and so that, that transition felt natural from there. And I, I also, you know, shifted my career to be sort of more New England centric. So When I was a medical student, and actually I think a resident too, I spent time at Miles Memorial in Dam Mascota, and I'm sure that things in that area have changed somewhat, but probably not a lot. Mm-hmm. , I mean, it's a, it's a really na it's an inter interesting community because it's kind of, it's close-knit. It's got people who have been here there a long time, and people who are relatively new to the area. There's actually a very strong, from my perception, was very strong kind of, um, undercurrent of appreciation for the arts in different ways. And I'm wondering how your experience growing up in that town and getting your education in that area, um, influenced your decision to go into the arts. Definitely. Um, I agree it's an incredible community. I think community is such a strong thread there. Um, it really, it, that was something I took away a lot and from my time there and also, you know, was part of what was drawing me back. And you're, you're also right, there's a ton of really, really great, um, arts organizations, a lot of non-profits, which is again, a lot of work that I've done as well. So I think there's just a really collaborative spirit as well in terms of the different organizations. And yeah, growing up I, you know, I knew that the arts was something I wanted to do. I don't think I fully understood that I was interested in the business of art until I got to college. And that was sort of a shift. But I took a lot of photography courses, I did work at the main media workshops, you know, there were just so, it is, it's rich for people who wanna learn. And, um, you know, even now, I, I always think about how Maine is just such a place where people come for artist residencies and their organizations that provide Maine is a space for people to create. So that's, that's one thing that I just, I love so much and I think was formative when I was growing up. For me, Damariscotta has always been kind of intriguing because there's such a rich, um, native American presence that still kind of is felt in that area. I mean, I think there's the midden that I never got a chance to, or maybe it's middens that, um, Yeah, many middens actually. Yeah. Yeah. No, and oysters are a huge, huge part of, um, just the culture there too. It's become more and more, and, you know, it, that's, it's really interesting to think about, um, you know, a, a creature but also a food source that's been so prevalent for, you know, such an incredible amount of time. And yeah. No, I, I agree. It's a beautiful place and you understand why people have lived there for generations and generations. And the middens are basically enormous mounds of discarded Shells. Right. Shell mittens, shell heaps. People also sometimes call them. Yeah, it's, it's sort of like on the side of a riverbank of the riverbank, um, you can just see these stacks and stacks and stacks of them, which, you know, represent a huge amount of oysters eaten, um, over, over time. And we still do have wild dam mascota oysters, and it's, it's a cool place to, you know, to be the Tidal River is a, is a gorgeous, um, gorgeous part of the state. Yeah, I mean, it's such an, it's such, for me, it's like such an interesting kind of connection to the past mm-hmm. and that it's still kind of present. We're still eating oysters from this river and we're still eating oysters that people were eating many, many, many years ago. Right, definitely. And that connection to the past is, um, more prevalent, I think, just by virtue of having that visual reminder than definitely in other places, perhaps. No, I think that's definitely true. So in a way that's kind of a, an maybe an inadvertent public art that has been put there at the Middens, and I know that public art actually is something that you have an interest in yourself. Definitely. Yeah. So I, when I was in New York, I worked at, um, art Production Fund, which is a great, uh, nonprofit that sort of, the mission is rooted in helping to fund commission, um, and produce ambitious public art projects. So that was really, really a fabulous, um, experience in public art, you know, understanding the scope of the work and basically, you know, soup to nuts, the whole process of commissioning. Um, and so now being back in Maine, I'm working with the Portland Public Art Committee, um, which has been great, and really enjoying understanding, you know, okay, what is our collection of public art and how can we move it forward and expand it and really get, um, you know, some, some beautiful work that is so accessible. I think that's the thing I love the most about public art is the accessibility, the moment that artists get to make a piece that really is seen, it's seen by so many, and so often it becomes sort of part of maybe your daily commute if you're, you know, walking along the Eastern prom or other sort of public spaces. So, uh, that's, it's like you like the middens, it's sort of these landmarks. They become these parts of our daily lives, which I, I feel is how art should be. So it's, it's fun to see it really in practice, in public art. Do you have any favorite pieces that are currently in the greater Portland area? Um, one of my absolute favorites, uh, is a recent acquisition, um, by actually the Portland, um, basically into the Portland public art into our collection. And that is called Gathering Stones by, uh, sculptor Jesse Salisbury. It's beautiful. It's on the Eastern promenade, it's on, uh, fish Point, and it's these carved stones in really sort of organic forms, um, that are placed around each other. And they sort of like interact and they sort of invite you to interact, to sit on them, to lie on them, to rest on them, you know, you could eat your lunch on one as a table. So it's another way that public art is just so engaging, because you can often interact with it in a way that, you know, a piece on the wall is, is harder to do. Um, and so that was actually going to be just a temporary, um, installation. And then, um, put up a Tempo Art, which is a great, uh, non-profit in, in Portland that helps make temporary art. And then, because it was just such a beloved project, it was acquired by, um, by the city, so it's great and it will be permanent now. So it's, it's a really, it's probably one of my favorites at the moment, but it's also new, so that's exciting as well. So I love hearing about a favorite that became even more of a favorite and became permanent. And conversely, I know the public art is, um, sometimes not always as well received as the people who are putting it into place have intended it to be. Oh, that's so true. Um, that is such a part of public art, which I, I'm, I'm a total nerd about because it's interesting, you can, you know, best laid plans, you can always create something and the public can take something totally different. And that's true for all artists, you know, you create something, you put it out in the world, you hope the reaction or the meaning is what you intended, but you, you, at the end of the day, you can't control it. And public art puts that on the big screen for sure. Um, but I think I always feel aligned with, you know, doing my research, understanding the artist's intent, and, you know, I think the public, the public will always be the public. We see it all the time, you know, the reactions that people get, um, from, from anything whenever you put something out in the world. So, um, I, I'm always interested to see people's reactions and, and what becomes beloved art and what becomes, you know, something that, that transforms it a little bit because of the public's opinion. So it's, it's its own sort of back and forth game with it. Well, and it is different from the work that you do typically in, at least in the art consulting space, that is a smaller group of stakeholders that are engaged in something that is probably more private. And, um, there's, I'm sure there's some back and forth amongst, perhaps if you have a couple that's looking to put a piece in their home, then that's a little different than Definitely the Stakeholders in a community that are probably more broadly varied and have definitely differing versions of what they like. Yeah, absolutely. And the checks and balances and the approval, you know, there's a lot you have to go into, especially when something's at commission, you know, it's, it's going through so many phases of planning. So I think it's interesting to see the combination of even something sometimes that goes through so many eyes once it gets into the public sphere, becomes something new and new entirely, and, and, you know, a different, different facet of it is brought to light. So it, I think that's as, as tricky as it can be. It's ever changing. And I, I find it interesting to sort of think through those sort of problems. It, it definitely is a, um, contrast to the other work that I do. I'm thinking about, um, this idea that if you're an artist and you're trying to kind of stay true to your work, but you also need to make a living off of your art, there's always this kind of inherent conflict. Are you, are you doing art that is meant to sell? Or are you doing art that you want to do, but you hope will sell? And that kind of ongoing, um, interplay between those two ideas, is that something that you have ever seen kind of manifest in ways that you wouldn't expect? Definitely. I mean, actually a good example of of that, that's a little, um, it's back sort of to the public art idea is that, you know, I think that there are so many artists who I'd love to see make public art that don't necessarily do it in a way that is as durable or, you know, basically the fabrication that they usually utilize isn't suitable for sculptures that would need to be outside or anything that needs to be in the public eye. But we can change, we can adapt, you know, you can, when artists can translate their idea into other bigger things and still, you know, it's that same sort of challenge. They still need to stay true to what their vision is, but how do you translate it into, you know, sculpture versus, you know, like a two-dimensional painting or, you know, bringing things into another, um, just another medium. So I think as long as well, and it's, it's tricky. I can't, there's no magic, you know, sauce to it or there's no secret recipe. But I think when artists, you know, stick with what they know and what they love and find new and innovative ways to further it, that usually brings, um, success. I find Having talked to people over the years about the idea of commissions, I've heard varying, um, interest in the topic. Some artists love to do commissions. Mm-hmm. , some artists will never, ever do commissions. There have been some very successful, um, commissions done for individuals, let's just say, or even pub public art, and then conversely the other can be true. Yeah. What, what happens when you're engaged, let's say you're doing, um, work with Powell and some is commissioned, you're kind of proceeding along a path and the end result is not what the person who is paying for it expected, right? Well, I think the thing to highlight there is going through Powell or going through an organization with folks that you trust, um, and folks who are well versed in what they're doing, and also, you know, have great relationships with either galleries or artists, because that's where you, you can always have the space to turn something around like that. You know, whether it's something start, you know, people start changing their mind, maybe we'll put something on pause or, you know, there's the, we're here to be sort of that intermediary and to help, um, just make it smooth sailing as much as you can. And you're right, sometimes things don't work out. We all know that that's, that's life. But I think as long as you are working with good people who have your best interests in mind and, um, are there to help navigate whatever comes up from a commission like that, then you're, you're in the right place. So, Phoebe, do you have any artists, um, from any of the main art galleries that you've recently become interested in and that you've put in, in your visual role at X as you referred to it? Definitely. So, um, earlier, earlier this year, I went to a, a lovely breakfast put together by, um, Portland Art Gallery for an artist, Bibi Jen Alot, and she's from California, I think it was, might have been in honor of her first show with Portland Art Gallery. And she was lovely. We met, I met her. It was really great conversation, saw the work, um, you know, didn't have anything that it was right for at the time, but, you know, kept it, kept it in mind. Um, and then recently we, we had a client who was really interested in mixed media. Um, and, you know, that's, that's sort of different. We get a lot of painting, you know, photography works on paper, but mixed media is a really interesting and specific, um, sort of thing to look for. And immediately Bibi's work came to mind, and it's just really fresh. It doesn't, she's, she's not a trained artist. It doesn't look like a lot of other work, um, that, that I'd seen lately. So we shared it with a client and they ended up really, really loving it. And so it, that was a really fun one to just, okay, I remember seeing this. Let's pull it out. Let's dust it off and think about, think about this in a fresh way for a different client. So, So in this case, it was specifically the idea of looking for something that was mixed media that sent you in the direction of Connecting. Yeah, in this case it was, and it wasn't a, a request from the client. We just found that they, they preferred that that was, that was what they were gravitating towards. So it was a sort of a challenge of, all right, let's find, let's find some work that aligns in that way. When you first start working with a client, do you maybe do a walk through their house to their business or have them kind of flip through their art catalog so that you get a sense of what types of, um, whether they like oils or pastels or whatever it is that they are, um, traditionally collecting? Yeah, I think it, it's, it totally depends on the client, you know, their comfort level, if they have an existing collection, you know, it's, there's such a range. What, what their goals are, what they're looking to do. Are they just looking to place a painting in a certain place, or are they building and developing a collection? Are they reframing work? Are they, you know, there's, there's so much to it, but often, yes, it does revolve around the home. Um, people want art in places they get to see and they can really love. And the conversations are pretty natural, I think, um, in terms of, you know, what, what people are interested in. And, and often people will share, oh, I love this. Oh, I've seen this before. This is cool. Or My friend has this and, and I really love it, but I'm looking for something different. You know, we get, it's easy to sort of pull people's preferences as you, as you converse and, and have a conversation. I know a significant part of what you do is actually working with artists. And as a photographer yourself and someone who has an arts background, um, I'm, I'm sure that that skill comes in handy because I think it is probably fairly difficult. I'm just guessing. I am not a visual artist myself, um, to, to be creating something that you put out in the world. Other people are judging, either they buy it, they don't buy it, right. So are there, are there things about your own background and creation that have enabled you to have a perspective and an empathy that is useful in your work with artists? I think it is. Um, I grew up in a really creative family. Um, my mom does art, she's also a graphic designer, you know, so I've always thought about art as something that is integrated into life and integrated into business. And, you know, I, I see it in a lot of places. So I do think following that thread has helped me. Um, and, and I come at things I, I hope with a creative sensibility, so that, that makes a difference too. I think you can always, you know, if you get too, um, sort of pragmatic about things, it, you have to, you have to keep that creative energy flowing. And that's what, that's what I find in, um, working with artists is they, they always bring such an incredible energy and I, I just get along really well with that. So I think that's always been something that's kept, um, kept the energy flowing and just, it just feels good for me to work with artists. I love sharing artists work. I love getting it out there. I love finding people, new people who love it. Like, those things are just really enjoyable to me. As You're working with less developed artists, let's say ones who are earlier on in their career, do you feel you're able to, um, help them with perspective that enables them to continue to move forward perhaps more successfully? I hope so. Um, I, one thing I, I hope to always bring to those sorts of conversations or meetings or studio visits is just a lot of perspective. Having worked in a lot of different facets of the arts, having an interest in public art, you know, working in nonprofits, I think my, it that has expanded, you know, my view of the creative community a huge amount. So I hope I can help extend that and, and open up that, you know, it's not just you make something, you sell something. There's so much more than that, and a lot of artists know that, but especially early in your career, to see that expansiveness, I hope is, um, heartening. Well, I've very much enjoyed our conversation today and, and learned a lot about, particularly really the, the public art side of things that I don't think a lot of us, um, spend a lot of time considering when we think about art. So I appreciate your willingness to come in and speak with me today. Thanks so much. I really enjoyed the conversation as well. Thanks for having me. I'm Dr. Lisa Bale. You have been listening to or watching Radio Maine today? I've had in the studio with me, art consultant, Phoebe. Cool. I hope that our paths will cross again in the future. I do as well. Thanks so much, . Thank you.