Artist Dan Daly on Sketchbooking, His Various Careers, and Volunteering at Maine State Prison

I have with me artists, Dan Daley. Thanks for coming in. Thank you for having me. So I want to start with an interesting commonality that you and I share. Um, I many years ago was the medical director for the Cumberland county jail. And apparently you teach individuals who are incarcerated at the Maine state prison. I don't presently because of, uh, COVID all that got shut down, but I did it for a couple of years. Yes. How did you get into that? A lot of work I did. I taught at the college level in Boston for a number of years, and I do private tutorials and things like that. And, um, someone knew of my work. They had a little nonprofit and, uh, that was a community outreach in Rocklin and they thought, well, there's a whole community down the road. That's isolated. And these people, uh, can have access to college courses and stuff. And they did have an art program. There was an inmate who had some teaching experience and some art experience, and they said, maybe it'd be nice to get someone different in there to give them some another perspective. So they asked me and I said, yeah, that might be different. I'll give it a try. W what did you learn? How is it different than teaching in other settings? Well, theoretically college people are there. They want, they want to make a career out of it. Um, the inmates, some of them were actually tattoo artists before they went in, uh, had interest in the arts. Some of them just needed self-expression and didn't quite know how to approach it. Um, it was a very interesting experience. There were some incredibly good students and students that really listened to me sometimes. Uh, I found, uh, a number of the students actually better students than what I had in college at one point. That's interesting. Why do you think that was, Um, they were hungry. They were, they were very hungry for the expression for outside, uh, outside input and a different perspective. I mean, if you were in the, in an institution like that, the first thing you notice when you go in is the blandness of everything, the overhead lighting, which is all fluorescent and the lack of, uh, uh, you know, interesting lighting my wife sent to decorating, and she's very conscious about lights and where lights are and what kind of lamps. There's no lamps, that's overhead light. And so that evens everything out and you don't even have the drama of a side lit face. No, it, uh, so just having, I think being exposed to different stuff, um, Randy Liberty, he's the commissioner of prisons. Now, he was doing all kinds of things, very open to innovation. And he let me bring in all kinds of art magazines, uh, like American art review, which covers a whole spectrum of different artists. And that was like eye candy to these guys. I mean, it was like, some of them had never been exposed to art history or anything like that. And so just seeing this range of stuff and, and seen someone that, uh, I mean, a lot of these guys had preconceptions about what they should do, and it was very important to try to find their particular skillset. And then just encourage that instead of their preconceived notion sometimes was like, well, I ought to be doing it this way. You know? And, and for them to see like an artist that worked just in a two dimensional, flat canvas kind of way, and a non-representational way, but emphasis on color and texture and stuff, it was like a revelation for them in some way. So it was like, you know, if your strength isn't real good draftsmanship and drawing, but your strength is color and pattern. And, uh, something like that go with it, you know, and it was, it was a lot of fun seeing the growth of some of those guys. I remember once interviewing, um, an individual who taught, who taught writing within, I think it was specifically to women who were incarcerated. And I think what I heard that individual say was that it just, it was, it unlocked so much for people that probably hadn't had that opportunity to experience a creative freedom previously. Yeah. Sometimes some of those guys had never had the exposure to that sort of thing at all. And, and to find that there were some validity to a sincere expression was very revealing for them. You know, it caused for some really interesting and tense conversations. The tenseness. Tell me about that. Um, well the lights, the first time I went in there, uh, if you've never been in prison before, and you would go into that institution and those big doors go, the dome, the dome, you know, be hind each set that you go through and then you walk through this like austere courtyard, and then you get into the educational building, at least at the main state prison. Uh, there's the gym and there's all the workout guys there. And then you go into the education section. And that first time that I did it, it was like, wow. You know? And then when I got there, I just told them who I was, what my background was, um, where I was coming from, where I hoped it to go, but I wanted to know where, what they would hope to get out of it. And so we had kind of a question and answer, and I said, let's just take some time and I'll look at what you've done. One-on-one so that I can get an idea of where you're coming from. And this one guy came up with this like 18 by 24 piece. And he was all tattooed out when he was 30, 40 years younger in shape. And he holds up this piece and it's a hand holding a knife and it says kill on it. But it's very interesting. There's all these collage elements and stuff. It's an interesting piece. And he gets right in my face and says, so what do you think of this? And I said, I liked the intenseness of it and the impact, but why do you such a subdued palette? And he said, I knew it. I knew it. And I said, there's no bad decisions in this sort of thing, you know, go for it. You know? And he said, I thought it would, it would put it around the corner, you know? And I said, you might as well go for it. If you make a mistake, it's a mistake. You know, you can correct it. You can throw it out to another one, but you've made a mistake getting in here. You're not going to make a mistake here. He turned out to be an incredible student and incredible student. He had some wonderful basis and he's out now and he he's served his time. And, and when he comes up this way, he lives down south. He visits sometimes. So no, it was a good experience. I think, uh, I think some of the conversations and also like golf, good teaching, it's a two way street. You learn a lot. I mean, sometimes I can get, uh, I've been drawing a lot my whole life. So I'm a decent draftsman. You can get too clever sometimes when you're a decent draftsman and you, when you talk about impact and having presence in your work, and then you see someone that all they can do is put presence in their work, but they don't have the skill. Uh, you appreciate the, the, the effort to put the presence in the work. And then having that dialogue of like, you know, when they get too worried about technique, you know, no, you don't want to worry about technique. Technique will come, you know, but that's that aspect of what I've done. Well, I know that one of the ways that you've gotten better and better over time is by carrying all of these sketchbooks around. And you have one in your pocket right now. Oh yeah. And you, in the material that you provided for us before you came in, you talked about the fact that you get your, your keys, your wallet, your sketchbook, and you just carry it with you like regularly. So when I'm looking at some of these scenes from many of your past sketchbooks, it just makes me think about the importance of, um, being still long enough to capture an image wherever it is that you are. Well, um, yeah, sketchbooks, I do take a lot of pictures. In fact, at one point I was actually a photography major in school. Um, there's something about sketching and always having a sketchbook to record an idea. Um, there's just something about drawing that has always interested me ever since I was a kid, even though I took a long, crazy route to become an artist, uh, drawing was always important to me and it, it allowed me to focus on something and to, and to not only focus and interpret what I saw before me, but to, um, to do whatever was in my head. So when I'm looking at this piece in particular, and I just happen to open it up to one of the pages, this almost, this is drawn in succession as if it's, you know, you separate panels, almost like a kind of a cartoon progression. Uh, yeah, well that, uh, that's kind of an interesting, um, thing in that these little I've always loved Edward Hopper, Edward Hopper, his sense of light. And, uh, and there's a certain melancholic isolation sometimes and some of his things, but they're also very definitely set in a time and place. There's a lot of Victorians, that's, you know, thirties, forties, fifties sort of thing. And at one point, um, I mean, I do a lot of quick sketches of people walking around or something like that. Uh, but at one point I got thinking about hopper and I got thinking about, well, how do you distill a painting down to something very simple? Uh, at one point I was an abstract artist. I didn't ever do representational stuff and thinking about edge and shape and just general color and different things like that. And then thinking about hopper, it was like, how do you do something that's more timeless that has that feeling that also incorporates like space division, that's sort of abstract. And just having the figure with strong lights or there's just, well, that's the beauty of a step, a sketchbook. If you just get off on a tangent, you start following the tangent, see where it goes. And so all these things aren't meant as like a storybook kind of thing, but they're all, uh, basically the save space on the page and the think of individual paintings. And out of that actually has grown a whole series of paintings, uh, that are still mostly small, um, of light of that nature. And then entirely different from my landscape things or cityscape things and everything. It's good to jump around and at this stage of the game, why not jump around? Oh, that that's true. I mean, I think the idea that you're continually thinking, well, I'm not done yet. There might be something else I can, I can look at things in a different way. Sure, sure. So when you're, when we're looking at this piece behind us, first of all, what is this piece next to us called? Um, it's, uh, it's the island, uh, that's opposite our camp. This is actually what I look at when I'm on the camp porch or the dock, and I've done a number of drawings and a number of paintings it's that island is, uh, sort of like what that mountain is to Sussan it just especially those two Pines at the end. Uh, sometimes the painting is more shifted over towards just those two ponds. Uh, but that's, it's just an endless changing scene, you know? So this, these clouds that day, it was just so incredible. It was like, holy God, that clouds looking at the reflections. And, uh, it was originally actually a watercolor. Uh, and I did this nice little watercolor and, and I liked the watercolor so much, some watercolors funny, you know, sometimes it works. Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't. And I liked this little watercolor and, uh, of, of that exact image and, uh, someone that had been staying at the camp above us, um, she saw it and she insisted on buying it. And I finally just sold it to her. And I thought I really kinda liked that scene. And I had a picture of the water color. So I said, well, I'll just do a big, you know, and that's where that penny came from. It was the original, the original inspiration was just that little watercolor is a very fleeting kind of moment. I, as you're talking about this, I think about, um, the summertime when my family and I will go out to the goslings on our boat, off the coast. Um, and there is, there's a kind of a series of interconnected kind of islands because low tide, they certainly are connected. You can walk across them, but there are a couple of trees that every time I go there, I look at those trees and it feels, it almost becomes like, um, a friend when I'm out there looking at these trees. So when you describe not just this landmass, but there's this intimacy, this familiarity with this it's part of the landscape. It's almost as though it's become your friend. Oh, very much. So, uh, I've been involved in a lot of conservation stuff my whole life then, uh, I proudly say I'm a tree hugger. Uh, yeah, there's a, there's a hemlock on my walk from our house. I can walk down all the mirror farm, and then go out to the sober, look over this pond. And there's this humongous hemlock there. And every time I go by it, I touch it say, hello. Well, you and I think are possibly cut from the same cloth every time my, my wonderful husband thinks, uh, I'm gonna cut down that tree because it's going to do something different for our landscape. I say, but you can't cut down the tree. It's a tree, it's a little birds live in it and squirrels, and it has its own personality. And, and I think there is that connection that some of us develop with these trees, that, and other bits of nature that are around for many years. And doesn't that, doesn't that lead to this idea that conservation is important. That we're all part of this ecosystem versus being separate from, Well, obviously, you know, we use, would we, uh, Yeah, this, this table is not what is some sort of not natural piece, but to, but to your point, yes, we do use it. Yeah, We do do it, but I think we need to do these things thoughtfully and to what extent and preserve like pockets of realness. Uh, but that's a whole other subject that we could get very tensional about. Well, and to your point, it's, I mean, obviously you can't keep all the trees. If we kept all the trees, then that would be problematic in its own way. But I like the way that you've put it, that that's, there's a thoughtfulness that needs to take place around it. Yes. Yes. And there's, there's too much thoughtless mess, I think in the way people approach some of those things. I guess that's the good thing about having people around us that we all balance. One another, hopefully if there are some people who think, uh, removing a tree would be good because it would create negative space. And then there are some people who are saying never remove any trees, then maybe there's some way of coming to a middle ground. That makes sense for everybody. Yeah. Which that kind of dialogue got to probably be extended into politics too, of having a dialogue. I CA I completely agree. It's, uh, I think that is probably what I worry about the most is, you know, when I see patients as a doctor and I hear the different people's opinions and I allow them to have their voice, um, I just, I think there's so much more mutual respect that's generated on a one-on-one basis. So I think you're right. I think that if we were to just start listening a little bit more and try and understand other people and where they're coming from, that would bring us to a better place perhaps than everybody getting very stuck in their own position and unable to see another side. Sure. Do you think as an artist, the idea that you've, uh, that perspective is important, visually perspective is important when you're creating art. Do you think that that has contributed to this idea that maybe socially perspective is important as well? Are you saying technical perspective in a painting or perspective of, of, uh, where you're coming from intellectually? I'm Saying both. Is there a connection? Is my question? Uh, well, I, I, at one point in my art and still in, in places, uh, uh, I've been very interested in social comment. Uh, when I was younger, I really like pen and ink artists like Heinrich clay. Uh, um, more recently, George Gross, Ben, Sean, Jack Levine, people like that, that did a lot of social commentary stuff. And, uh, uh, I still do that kind of thing. There was something that I did about, uh, uh, there was a painting called death burning the rainforest, you know, when there are certain things that are just so outrageous, uh, you have to make a visual statement about it. I really got on a tangent of that for a while. And some of those paintings were really big. Uh, and at the time I was living in a condo in Boston. And after a while, when you already have the urban environment, that's kind of hitting you every day. And my part-time job was as a bartender at night. So there was an intense this there. And then when, while you're doing is intense stuff, uh, it becomes kind of disquieting, you know, when it's hanging there and it's all around you all the time. So some of that stuff would actually have to turn against the wall and then it, and it was around that time that I started getting more back into landscape painting, and it was like, well, if it wasn't going to sell, and a lot of that stuff doesn't sell because who really wants to be looking at intense paintings all the time, except people that, well, it depends, you know, but if it's not going to sell, it's a whole lot easier to paint places that you've love, you know, like camp scenes or, or fishing scenes or things that, and it's like, oh yeah, I look at there's the island look at the light there, you know? Um, but then I go back and do it just because sometimes you just have to, Yeah. I mean, I think what you're describing is very familiar to me because I, I think there's a lot in the work that I do that is very, um, challenging. There's a lot of people who come to see me, um, who have a lot of sadness and trauma and grief. And, uh, so for me, when I leave my professional work as a doctor, I don't necessarily want to have a wall full of trauma and grief and sadness because in an effort to stay balanced, I'm always trying to kind of, kind of have a foot in both camps, I guess. Yeah. But at the same time, um, at least for myself, I wouldn't want something sacramentally sweet around as just a, you know, a total Cami kind of thing. Uh, I don't paint that way. You know, I w I like, uh, I like having some paint texture. If I do a landscape of Maine, I want something in the paint quality of the reflect, the ruggedness of, of, of the time and place. Yeah. So to be clear, I do not have like, you know, cotton candy, pink walls or anything that is a soporific that you have. No, but, um, I think for me, when I look at this piece that you've created, um, there is something that just brings me back to a place of stillness and kind of a sense of more of the infinite, I guess, which is useful. I think sometimes when you get, when your life becomes very micro at times. And when I look at some of these pieces that you brought today, for example, this, this piece that has two camp chairs in it, and it brings me back to my, my grandparents camp on the little Sebago for many, many years ago. Um, but I suspect you have a different story about how this piece came to be. Uh, well, actually that image on that card is the watercolor and in our room and our dining room, the really big oil was 48 inches long or something. Uh, we were visiting a friend who was having a show with the Adirondack museum and blue mountain lake, and he had a little cabin he was staying at, and he's a tremendous cook. His wife is a tremendous cook, and they said, come on over to dinner. Um, we'll, um, cook dinner and another, couple's coming over with a little bit of luck. Maybe I'll play the guitar well, as it turned out, it wasn't an incredible dinner. And with a little bit of luck, he did play the, his friend was Kenny Burrell, the jazz guitarist. So it was a very special time. And that was the porch at that little cabin. And the funny thing about that image is everybody thinks that Ben in that camp, around that porch to the point where we stopped at a yard sale down east, it was on the, I think on the other side of Cutler. And, um, this woman had this kind of odd shaped frame. And she said, uh, I, I decided to buy it. And she said, whatever you, where are you ever going to find a picture that fits that frame? And I said, well, I'll just have to make a picture. And she said, oh, you're an artist. And I said, yeah, I paint. She said, what do you do? And I had some of those cards with me. And sometimes it's easier just to give somebody a postcard than try to explain, because sometimes I am all over the places we've talked and she looked at the card and then she turned it over and she said, what were you doing on my camp porch painting? And I said, no, I wasn't on your camp. That's not your camp porch. And she was adamant. She said, that's my camp porch. It says Indian lake on it. And I said, no, that's Indian lake in the Adirondacks. She said, that's my porch. She was so adamant about it. She said, the next person at the yard sale, it was, uh, it was like a group yard sale. She said, watch my stuff. We're going over to my camp. And she insisted on going over to the, to her camp and saying, you tell me whether you were painting here. And we got there and it didn't look anything like that, which is so funny. And she looked at the card and he goes, oh, no, it isn't my camp. And I said, no, I was trying to tell you that. But the wonderful thing about that is that, well, I like read number one and, but it brings, it brings out that thing. Uh, Ben on that porch, I stayed at that camp. I there's something special about camps, some certain cottages on lakes or the shore that just resonate with people. And it resonates with me because those I would sell just about any painting I do. But that one, I won't sell Dan you've you attended five different colleges, is that right? Yeah. Five different colleges. And I think in reading about your life, you've been, we already mentioned the bartender. You've been a teacher. I think you, I think I read you had some construction experience. Um, how do you think that these, all of these different ways of, again, looking at the world or experiencing the world, how do you think that these have impacted art? Um, I don't know how they've impacted my art as much as how they've impacted me as a person and hopefully some of that comes through in the art. Uh, it, it probably does in the social commentary, uh, sorts of things. Um, uh, that, that's a tough question. I, uh, I, I think, uh, I'm a much more empathetic person, a person that's more open to listening to another person, uh, especially some of my earlier things that I did. Uh, the first time I dropped out of college to get money, to go back to college. I worked as a janitor at the Schenectady J E uh, the same, uh, place that Kurt Vonnegut worked, temporary relief, FIAR guy. And, uh, uh, I worked with the janitorial staff and, um, and took all my breaks with people. And, and that was, and for a long time, it was almost, uh, almost a year, six o'clock at night until six in the morning. And, uh, it was very interesting working with people with whom I would have never had an association with otherwise and became great friends. And, uh, and when I left, uh, to go to college, it was almost like, uh, like the first son of a family going away to school. Like they, I could feel that they had something invested in it. You know, it was just good stuff. Well, I've enjoyed our conversation today. I think I've, I've, uh, it's always interesting for me to meet people whose art I've been seeing for a while, but I don't know the person. So whenever I make that kind of connection between the person and what they've created, I think it, for me, at least it becomes a very important part of the way that I experience art. So thank you for doing that with me today. Well, thank you for having me here today. I encourage you to go to the Portland art gallery website, or maybe the Portland art gallery in person. Uh, certainly if you are interested, there are openings a monthly basis and maybe Dan Daley will be there and you can meet him, uh, to see what he's like as a person, as you're experiencing his art, the way that I have been today. Thanks so much for coming in today. Thank you.