Becoming a Professional Photographer: Meet Maine Creative Kari Herer

Have in the studio with me, photographer Carrie Herer. Nice to see you Today. Nice to see you. And thank you for having me. Yes. Thank you for coming in. I mean, you and I live in the same town. Mm-hmm. . So at least the uh, drive here was not too far. No, not far at All. Yeah. But you actually have traveled far and wide, so your travel today was not far, but you've been a lot of places, a lot of interesting places. Yeah. Yeah. Photography has brought me to many places and without it I don't think I would have traveled as much. So I'm grateful for it. What is your main connection? Um, main connection? Well, I didn't really have one. Um, I was working in Rhode Island at the time and I had the opportunity to move up here for another job and I took it cuz I wasn't very happy in Rhode Island. Um, and I, I don't have any family on the east coast, so it was a, it was a big shift when I moved from the west coast to the east coast. But Maine felt, I guess more like home to me. And, and I'm, I'm happy I'm here. I've landed here and I'm, I'm staying. So, If it feels like home, what, what does home feel like being here in Maine? Um, I think it's the, just the, I don't know. It's the lifestyle. It's the people and it's the environment I'm able to come. I, I actually come running on this island a lot cuz I find it so beautiful. Um, more walking now than running. But I'd like to get back into running in the spring. Um, and then just, I think Maine has given me all the opportunities to raise my kids the way I wanted to raise them here. Small community. Um, comfortable. Yeah. The pace is not as sped up. I think You got your, um, BFA from the University of Idaho mm-hmm. . And what was that like? Yeah, that was an interesting change. I was going to, um, I was in the UW system in Wisconsin cuz I grew up in Milwaukee and a friend of mine and I wanted to move out west just to see what it was like. So there's a program back then, I don't know if it exists now, but it was a great program. You could do a national exchange and pay in-state tuition and, um, we both decided Idaho was, our schools both, um, had a reciprocity between the two. And so we picked Idaho and randomly and loved it. So I ended up, um, getting residency out in Idaho and staying for six years. And I loved Idaho a lot. Yeah. I really loved the West Coast Milwaukee. That's interesting. I don't run into that many people that have that as their, their hometown. Yeah. Yeah. I was a little suburb outta Milwaukee, kind of like Yarmouth is a little suburb outta Portland and I was right next to Lake Michigan, which looks like an ocean, but I never actually enjoyed it as much as I've enjoyed the coast of Maine. Well, I did my, I've only been to Milwaukee one time and it was the big city. It was not the suburb. Yeah. Because I got my master's degree from the Medical College of Wisconsin. Oh, You did? Yes. And I also remember there was a, there's a zoo out there mm-hmm. as well. So those are my two main rememberings is that it's That's right. It's pretty urban, but there's a zoo. Yes. But it, it also kind of felt to me, um, like a little bit more accessible than some of the large cities that I've been to before. And I, I wonder if you've had that same feeling about being in the greater Portland area and living in Yarmouth. Absolutely. Yeah. And I, I really feel like Portland being close to Portland gives us all the opportunities to the music and the culture and the food, um, so close. And that, that's really important to me. When You were growing up, did you think photography was going to be your path? I Didn't. No, I didn't. I always had it in my life in high school and, um, even before then, but I, I didn't think that I would end up doing that for a career. So what, what brought you in that direction? I mean, I think that when I talk to people who are interested in photography, sometimes they shy away from it because they feel like, oh, it's gonna be, I, um, I don't know, bar mitzvahs and, you know, kind of events. Not that there's anything wrong with that because I think those are very important, but that's not what everybody wants to do. There's a little bit of uncertainty built into this as a career, I think. Yes, Absolutely. And, uh, I, I feel that more and more today, um, as things shift and as more cameras get into people's hands, there's not, you know, a a the line is getting blurred between professional photography and amateur photography with the tools that we can use these days, which I think is really great. I, I think that's really great. I think more cameras and more people's hands is more important. But, um, when I started out, um, I was working, when I got really serious thinking, oh, I, I might be able to do this as a career. Uh, I was working down at William Arthur in Kennebunk, um, and I was the marketing designer, uh, taking photos of cards and I was, I had a little bit of time with the design jobs, so I spent a lot of time lighting and trying to make the cards look dynamic, which is really hard to do in a flat square, to take a picture of a flat square. Um, so I, I spent a lot of time in that little, you know, makeshift studio at William Arthur teaching myself how to photograph a product. Uh, and it was, it was such a, I loved that opportunity down there. It was great. But I ended up leaving that and, um, starting to do more things like families and weddings, um, and that was able to give me an income which I could kind of launch my career in into more product and, um, print sales. Going back to this idea of photographing cards mm-hmm. and, um, kind of the idea that they're not multi-dimensional. Mm-hmm. Not at All. That that lighting has to be a very specific way, I would assume. Like how does one make cards come to life and be more dynamic? One thing about William Arthur is they had letter press and engraving in the building. So we got to see the process, which I was in love with. And, um, there is a little impression in letter press and a tiny little raised impression and engraved, and if you light it just so with really, really, um, dynamic, you know, low lighting, um, you can get that texture out and you can, and we used really fine papers too, so you could get the green of the paper. And I just, I fell in love with that, the shadow and the light around, um, letter press and engraved cards, which is something I haven't thought about in a really long time. . And now having spoken to a, a fair number of artists, it's interesting that printmaking comes up a lot. And I know that this is not printmaking what you're describing, but there is something interesting about that, that it seems to be kind of a continual theme. The idea of letters and the idea of language and how it kind of interfaces in this, in this case with product, but also with art mm-hmm. . So I wonder if your, um, having the opportunity to focus so specifically on something for some period of time, if that in any way contributed to your future process. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was, um, intense scene, I think, and focusing on just really one thing, a card, uh, first three years. So how do you translate that into a working with people situation? Because in one case, the cards will just sit there and they'll, they'll do exactly what you tell them to do. People don't do that necessarily, especially not small people. It's a, it's a very large leap from going from that to where I am now in my process of photography. But it, but you're right, it's the same, it's really the same process. Um, it's setting up, um, a scene or setting up that, um, background I guess first and letting the people enter into that space or letting life happen into that, that structure or space. Um, which is so much more interesting than photographing cards. But also, um, with my, my family photography that I did for a long time, history repeats itself. So if a child does something funny, they're, and they get a laugh, they're gonna do it again. So you can anticipate those moments and predict when they're gonna happen. And if you're, um, focused on the background and let them that happen naturally in the foreground, it, it's, it's the world's, um, meeting you halfway . I really love that, that idea that you somehow kind of control what you can control mm-hmm. to the extent that that's ever possible. And then you provide space for something that you really can't control, but you think maybe you can anticipate in some way. Definitely. And I think that happens in every aspect of our daily lives too. If you prepare yourself, you know, an opportunity even just comes if you're prepared for it. There's so many different directions, and my mind is spinning here with the different examples of what you're describing. But I'm wondering, I want you to tell me about some of your travels, some of your farthest fun flung travels and some of the exotic places you've been to and, and some of the kind of contrasts and comparisons with your current everyday life. Yeah. Um, I did a lot of traveling and photography was able to take me to those kind of places, but I don't know how exotic I guess they've been because I've done a lot of work with hotel, uh, hotel chain. And so, um, the, the fun part of it for me, even though they were a lot of all inclusives and like the Dominican or Jamaica, um, the staff and the behind the scenes was really interesting to me. And I think that's why I got hired again because it wasn't a typical, um, photo of a palm tree and a coconut. It was, um, the staff washing windows or preparing meals or in, in the kitchen behind the scenes of the buffet bars. Um, and I, I, I loved that. It was a really wonderful position and I was able to travel with my children. And then unfortunately Covid happened and we haven't done it since. So I'm trying to bring that little bit of travel back. Um, but my kids are a little bit older now, so it's not as, they don't, they don't really wanna leave school anymore, even though I wanna pull 'em outta school. But we'll see, um, in the future if that happens. So When I'm thinking exotic and far flung, what you're talking about is the people in those places. Yeah. Which is really great actually. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I really enjoy the culture and, and meeting the people, um, being able to be brought to places that typical vacationer wouldn't be brought to. That's always really fun for me. There Is this sense, I think many of, many of us have, and I've had this before myself, where you, you sort of create this idea in your mind that it places is this exotic thing that you've seen in a movie before and you're gonna go there and you're gonna exist as if you're in a movie and then you show up and people are going to work mm-hmm. and they're having breakfast and you know, they're just doing what we do all over the world really. And, um, even though people can be very different, there's a sense that actually there's more that is similar Right. Amongst all of Us. Yes. And that repeats itself in photography. Um, for example, at a wedding, um, the moment the groom will put his ring on, he usually doesn't have a ring on that finger. And so he plays with it a lot. Or when the bride just, you know, they, they're just announced and they are about to walk out the aisle and she forgets her flowers. There's always a moment there. And that happens in every culture in every place that I've photographed. Not just the ones, you know, in Maine, but it's fun to watch the, that history. We're all human . Yeah. That's really interesting. Or the, the tapping that I've specifically see men who are newly married, they'll, they'll tap their ring against things and Yeah. Yeah. Something to get used to that they haven't had Before. Yeah. But it's those moments that I'm looking for cuz it makes us all connected. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Tell me about your interactions with Cindy Crawford. Mm-hmm. and how you came to know her. Well, , I don't know if she knows me, but I know her. Yes. Um, I did have the honor to go and assist Sam Abel at a photo shoot in, um, Texas at Cadillac gra Cadillac Ranch. There's a long story that precedes it, but he was asked by acne studios fashion company in Switzerland to photograph this new fashion line. And Cindy was the model and I've been working with Sam for a while and he asked me and his other assistant, Tom Daley, to come and assist him in that photo shoot. Her presence was, you know, just beautiful, of course, but also very professional and very, um, it was just very, it was, it was an honor to be around her and watch her work and watch her model and watch Sam on the set. And she was in and out within one day. She flew in on our jet, flew out on her jet, but the best part of the whole, um, photo shoot I felt was Sam only works in natural light and so we didn't have any lighting. I had a bounce that I was using. Um, but other than that we had no lighting set up and he wanted sunlight, um, the first available light and the last available light. So we had set the setup in that way. So she came in, um, she started getting ready at four 30 at, I don't remember exact time, but the sun came out. We started shooting and he probably photographed for 30 minutes and then we had the rest of the day. So we went back to the hotel and we looked at the photos together and she watched him as he edited and, um, kind of called the photography and gave her a little mini lesson dur during that. And she got a workshop from Sam and we did watching and then we went back out on the set for sunset for 30 minutes. And then she was, it was, it was so fun to see how much conviction he had and what he wanted and how he delivered. It Seems like if you're working with somebody that's been in this industry for a very long time, that it could potentially be just a little bit intimidating. Hmm. Absolutely. Maybe not for Sam, but I don't know. How did you feel about It? Um, I, I was nervous. I was very nervous. Um, I wanted, you know, they had flown everybody in from all over the country. Um, and we came, you know, I came from Maine, um, and I was, and we all met in Texas, Amarillo, so it was a tiny little town in Texas. Sam, I guess his presence makes you feel comfortable. He has a calmness about him and, um, like you said, he's been in the industry for so long. So as long as I knew I had his back and what he needed, uh, I thought, I thought we were gonna be, you know, okay. And, and hopefully clouds weren't gonna cover in in the morning or the afternoon, cuz I don't know what would've happened. The world met him halfway that day. Well, I, I think what you're describing is something that, um, maybe people intuitively understand, but maybe not. And, and that is that, especially when you're photographing people or other living creatures that might respond to human energy, I guess, um, that there actually is a relationship there and that when you're trying to, um, bring somebody into the space, it's not just about the setup and the camera and the lighting and the stuff, it's also about how you create a relationship in a kind of a constructed and potentially awkward setting. Yeah. For many people, Yeah. It's not easy to get in front of a camera. Um, and I know that because I don't enjoy it myself. The, the people that I do photograph, I try to make them as comfortable as possible and show them the results so that they know what I'm doing is with, you know, the best intention. I think it's probably like 10% equipment in technology and 90% the relationship you build with the person you're photographing. Absolutely. And I do feel like intent is important. Um, and it shows, it comes through no matter what, what your intent is when you're pointing a camera at somebody or a child or even an animal, you know, they can feel that presence and that intent. I Do think that this thing you're describing where you can show somebody, this is what I just mm-hmm. took, this is what my with is just what I saw through the camera mm-hmm. that, that makes a big difference because, um, you know, back in the day when we would shoot film and you'd bring it to the pharmacy and you'd come back and you'd be like, okay, here's these shots. It, it, you could maybe, oh, that's a little disappointing. And this is not professional photography obviously. It's just, you know, like snapshots. Snapshots. Exactly. I think that immediacy and that ability to have impact on what others see and what the camera sees, I think that really does shift the dynamic somewhat. Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. I think it's very helpful and it lets people let down their guard a little bit. Do You feel like maybe the filters and the ability to manipulate images these days has led us in perhaps unintended directions? I do. , yeah, I do, unfortunately. Um, I see that with my girls and how they use the camera and what they're pointing the camera at. I teach in my own teachings and studying through my mentor Sam and his philosophy about photography as straight photography. He is the extreme and no cropping even, um, no editing and no filters or post-processing applied. I found that when I've studied this philosophy and did it in my own practice, I feel that the images last longer for me. And I think that they feel more honest to me. And I consider myself a photojournalist in my personal photography. So it's very important to me to not use filters. Even in my wedding photography. I won't because in 50 years I don't think you're gonna wanna look at that filter. You're gonna wanna look at the bride and groom and who they were and what they looked like. Um, then in that moment, my philosophy and head shots is if it's gonna be there in, if, if the thing you want me to Photoshop out is gonna be there in two weeks, I won't do it . But if, if it, um, if it's, you know, a blemish or somebody had a bad hair day, hair was flying around, um, we will talk about that and I will do it. But for, but I'll bring that up ahead of time. So if I'm talking to a client that I'm gonna photograph, I'll say that before we photograph, and I might not be the best photographer for that person. Um, they might wanna go with somebody else. But I do think it's a big question in our culture and our, and the industry right now, um, authenticity. And I actually think we're, if, if you like my, my children are on the cusp of it, they're intrigued by it, but they're also finding the, the straight photography enticing and, and interesting too. So I think we might see a shift soon, um, in the other direction, especially with these new filters. I think TikTok just, uh, brought one up. I don't have TikTok and my children don't have social media, so, um, but I did hear it's pretty extreme, so I think it's a fad. I'm gonna let it go. They can play with it for a little while, . And I think even in what I'm seeing with, and I don't have social media anymore, I've made a conscious decision not to have it. And I think that we've even gone through this like ultra ugly social media phase Yeah. Where people seem to be doing things Yeah. Sticking their tongues out or trying to appear as, um, strange as possible. Yeah. Which I think is also kind of funny because that's also, that's life, right? Yeah. That is what I mean. We are the range of human emotions, all of Us. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. So I Do wonder about as a professional photographer, how you've been impacted by, um, I guess the digital industry and the ability just to make a living, which I mean, it's one thing to say Sure. Let's make this available to everybody. Yeah. Um, and it's another thing to say, but this is how, this is the work that I do. Mm-hmm. . So what is your take on that? Yeah, the older I get, the more I see photography and the more personal, um, kind of philosophy that I have with my own personal photography. Um, I'm just using my camera as a tool to get my client what they need and, and I just happen to make money at it. Um, it has done so much more for me in my growth in my kids' lives, in my relationships with other people that I didn't really understand until I started looking back at my photography and using it more like a journal and learning from it, um, on a personal level more than just, you know, um, making money at it. I think that today it's, it's a hard living. Um, you, there's a lot of travel, there's a lot of, it's not, it's a, it's a lonely profession too, so you're alone a lot. You're editing a lot. You're, um, like any other profession, there's its pros and its cons, but what it's doing for me now is, is so much more important I think. Um, and the fact that other people have this really powerful tool in their hands or in their pocket and they can use it in ways to learn about themselves is really interesting. So I, I'm, I'm so grateful for digital tech technology and photography and getting the, the cameras in other people's hands. Um, but as a job, I feel like it's almost two different, uh, two different, completely different objects. Well, tell me what you've learned about yourself in your own use of photography as a a means almost of journaling, looking back at your own experiences. Yeah. Well, I've noticed patterns through the years, um, through my photography. And I've noticed things that I enjoy in my photography and what I don't enjoy. I've, I've certainly seen a, um, the relationships build and of my daughters. So I'm kind of doing a long-term project on 'em. It's very personal. I haven't really done much with it, but I've just taken pictures of them being siblings and it's ref, it's brought me back to my own relationship with my sister and how we had a relationship and the, the kindness that we had towards each other, but also the complete opposite. And I didn't wanna be anywhere around her. I didn't want anything to do with her. Um, but being in a physical space with a sibling, um, I think it's been so interesting to me to watch my children at different stages and looking back how they treated each other and the relationship that they've built to it. It is today, you know, in middle school. So, um, personally that's been a really fun one to see and photograph because I'm so close to it. So it's a but it's an ongoing process. Um, personal project. I, I'm wondering, as time has gone on, I'm wondering, um, if we will look back and find this rich treasure trove of imagery that um, somehow we can use in a different way. Mm-hmm. , I mean, when we've, in say for example, qualitative research, a lot of qualitative researches say interviews with people and conversations with people, but I know that they now are doing research where they actually ask the subjects to, to contribute their own images and so they can represent themselves so that it doesn't become the researcher and that person's interpretation of the subject. It's the subject saying this is, this is actually what I think, this is my own narrative. So I'm wondering how that might end up shifting how we understand each other as humans. That's a good, yeah, that's, that's so interesting. And would be, you know, every day about a couple years ago it was 6 billion photos get taken. Now it's completely different. I don't know that number. I wish I knew that number. That would be a good number to know the dialogue that we'll be able to see unfolding and research. And especially with AI and algorithms, what we'll be able to put together from those photographs is, yeah, it's very interesting. It's gonna be a one hell of a record . That's true. I mean, even now where we have people who have grown up in the digital age and they've grown up in the age of social media and I know we hear stories all the time of people who did something when they were 20 that really doesn't represent who they are now, that they're twice that age. And, and I think there, it is unfortunate in some ways. I mean, it's, it's wonderful and rich and, and healthy in some ways, but then it also, on the other side of things, it, it just creates this kind of ongoing glare of a spotlight on, on younger lives that, that, I mean I've made so many mistakes in my life, I think we all have that I would not have wanted captured on film and then put out there for all to see. And at the time I wouldn't necessarily have known that. I didn't want other people to be able to go back and reference that. Right, right. So I just wonder what long-term impact we have of not being able to actually make mistakes in private. Yeah. That's interesting. It's like our journals, you know, I think I threw a couple of my journals away cuz I just didn't wanna read them after college. I don't think I, I would certainly wouldn't want them online or in the public's side then. Um, now I think kids are editing themselves a little bit because they know that that is a possibility, whereas I don't think we did as much in our journals or our personal lives. But it will be interesting, you know, on one hand I, there is a lot of damage that could happen, but on the other hand, it's a bit of maturity that younger kids have to have before they kind of enter into that media world. Hopefully they're, they're being taught that . I mean I think when we all, when we started this increased, um, access to digital work, we probably didn't understand that we needed to understand digital literacy and that we really needed to have some, um, we needed to have some caution perhaps around it. Right. And I, and I'm hoping, and I'm thinking knowing that I work with educators that, that this is a focus that we have put some time and some thought into it. Right. I know my kids' schools are doing programs on it. Um, I'm not letting my kids have social media and I know that there's a lot of other kids that because of the research that came out in the past few years, are waiting before they, um, are a little bit more mature to be able to get it and, and access it. Um, and I think that, that, that's just a good thing. I think. Um, but many others don't in art and we'll see, you know, we'll see that research hasn't come out yet. So it, it will and it'll be interesting to find out what the consequences good or bad are. So you mentioned that one of your intentions is to get back to traveling if your children's lives will make space for it Yeah. In the post covid world. Um, what else is coming up for you in the future? They're so fun right now. They're at good ages, so I would like to travel with them, um, if that presents itself. But most recently I've been working on a film of my mentor. So I've been traveling with him a little bit and filming for the last year, um, and doing voice recordings and interviews and now I've got all this editing to do. Um, but I'm very excited because, uh, him as a photographer, his name is Sam Abel, I don't know if I mentioned that. Um, and he did work for The Geographic for 35 years and I've been working closely assisting him with his workshops and filming them as we go along. So I've got a lot of content. Um, but the film that I wanna do isn't about him as a photographer. There's a lot of, uh, everybody knows he's a good photographer but not necessarily a teacher. And the way he teaches is so, um, effective for students in photography. I've seen it cuz I've been to eight years worth of workshops of his and the, the lives that have been changed through his teaching have been really substantial. So I wanna capture that and I wanna capture his lessons and, um, his critiques of other photographers. And so it's been really fun and creative and collaborative, uh, project with him. So we've um, I said I was gonna film for a year. It's been a year. I'm gonna keep continue filming until we kind of get, uh, farther along. But I'll edit along the way and we'll see what happens. Um, I'm thinking about doing a series of little talks, um, put together little film series and um, yeah, we'll see what happens. But as long as he's doing workshops, I wanna be invited to film them and attend them. I look forward to seeing the outcome. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, it's been a pleasure to have the time to talk with you today and I wish you all the best on your future journey as a photographer and also as a mother of daughters. Oh, thank you . I personally, I have two daughters as well and they're wonderful and it's, I've al and my sons are also wonderful, so just, just putting that out there sons if you're watching or listening. Um, but it is certainly very special to have that bond, so Absolutely. It's nice to know that you're on that journey as well. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for joining us.