David Moser of Maine's Thomas Moser Furniture Family Discusses his Enduring Passion for Sculpture

I have with me sculptor and artist and a man of the world, he told me I can call him master of the universe or something like that. David Mosher. Good to have you with me today. Thank you, Lisa. Had I known you were going to use that against me? I may not have shared it. I mean, I don't even know if I got it right. Was it master of the universe or Lord of all creation or, Yeah, it's a little bit of all that. Yeah. I generally keep that my home life. I expect my children to call me that it doesn't work very well. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's good to have high expectations of yourself. I think it is. Uh, if you don't have high expectations for yourself, who else would have them for you? So I think you have to advocate for yourself. That's right. And I should say for people that are watching, it's not, you were saying this in the most I'm kidding of tones. It wasn't like you were actually suggesting that we should I'll call you that, Right, Right. To set that stage. Okay. There's only one way to go from here, but, um, tell me how you got into sculpting. Oh, You know, um, I didn't get into it at a, at a moment in time. Uh, working with my hands has been something I have been doing since a child. So it wasn't, uh, it wasn't a wholesale shift from one career to another or from one X, one material to another. It was, it's been something I've always done. Uh, and you know, and I'm sorry that it occurred to me that I could have brought, uh, a small mug that my mother has, which I gave to her when I was eight years old. I made a little, when it comes to working in clay, I made a little clay mug of, uh, and I put a caricature face. It was a little, my head that I fashioned into a mug. And, uh, I'm sure it was part of an art class in preschool or primary school. I know I was eight or whatever grade that is. Um, and then to show the contrast of how this mug, which, uh, and of course it's all on tutored. So this mug, how it morphs into what I'm doing today, uh, as an object example of how, um, uh, honing one skill, uh, is, uh, just takes a lot of time, um, because I am not, I'm not a trained sculptor. I I've never, my actually my background is in economics. Uh, so as a, as a sculptor, I come out, it totally self-taught in organic. So you are trained, you just trained yourself. Yeah. I am trained, uh, when I was furniture designer, my father used to, uh, think that all of my free spirited creation was some form of catharsis. And what I had to correct him was actually, you know, it's not as much it, perhaps it is cathartic because you have to work out problems that, that as from an artistic perspective, you have to work out these problems that, that, uh, are, um, uh, recurring in your head. In fact, I learned a new word the other day it's called , uh, difference is, is when you continue to just work and work and work an issue. Um, generally it happens about two in the morning with me, but any event it's not so much a cathartic, uh, exercise as I was honing my skills as much as it was onboarding new information. So as a self-taught artist craftsman, uh, I was, I was doing my practical that you would consider a practical foods in the classroom, but these are real practical examples. So, um, that's actually how I, how I evolved into, into where I am now. Um, vis-a-vis sculpting, How did you end up going from economics to furniture designing to sculpting, or maybe I don't even know if I have the actual Yeah, the chronology is pretty well, right. Uh, we started, uh, we been, uh, the Moser furniture, uh, in the early seventies. And so, um, we were, you know, very crafty and, and by around, uh, 1983, which is when I went off to college, it was in the middle of the Reaganomics. So I was very much a part of the whole, uh, Reagan period of, uh, uh, in fact, I, I, I even joined the Adam Smith club, a young Maine, Maine venture capitalists club, and I had the, I had the power suit and the yellow tie. Um, and that was, that was enjoyable for a while. Uh, but you can only deny your passions for so long. Um, and, uh, although that was, uh, that's how my college career went, but I was a fish out of water. Um, it was something that I attempt to do that, like I could get rich quick, and then I realized that, uh, there was more to life than just making money. Where did you go to college? Went to college at Northwood, uh, out in Michigan. And, uh, uh, I was introduced by Margaret Chase Smith to Northwood who was a trustee there. And so I took my, my associates there and I finished up here in Maine, uh, at Arnold. Yeah. So I'm certain that people of our era will recognize Margaret Chase Smith as a name. But for those of us who might be a little, uh, less far along the path, let's say Margaret Chase Smith. Tell us about your relationship with her. Well, Margaret Chase Smith was one of the, was, uh, the first woman's center that the country had and she hailed from Skowhegan, Maine, and, uh, every Senator congressmen and president, uh, is given a budget, uh, to build their library. And so when Margaret Chase Smith built her library and Skowhegan, she approached Thomas Moser and, uh, we designed and built the furniture there. And then, uh, that by extension led me to, to Northwood. So I would have been about what 18 at the time. So it seems like if someone like Margaret Chase Smith says here's a wonderful place that you should go to school, it probably would be a little hard to say no. Uh, well, it certainly came with a lot of, of merit, uh, and, uh, it was a raving endorsement, um, and it was, uh, a conservative financial school. So that made sense to me at the time. Yeah, it is an interesting, um, it seems to be an interesting contrast, the sort of the Reaganomics side of David Mosher and the craftsperson sculptor side that I, I mean, I I'm sure that there are conservative artists, but I don't, I haven't met a lot of them. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know why either, because it, it, it seems paradoxical to me that, uh, um, an artist who generally are free spirited free-willed and in, and individualistic with respect to how they, their optics of the world and how they view the world and how many artists seem to be, uh, collectivists. So there's the paradox is how can you be an individual and yet be chastised if you don't follow the group. And so therefore they're also followers. They are, they're both the same. And I find that very interesting because I don't believe I'm a collectivist. I do believe that I follow my individual passion, my individual belief. Um, yeah. Is that something that your family encouraged you to do? Um, I would say, well, we had a very competitive family, and so maybe that's why I have a bit of a recalcitrant streak in me, um, is to, uh, I have to defend my position constantly defending my position, um, which is something artists have to do regularly as to defend because you know, there's art in all of us, right? We're, we're all artists, um, the real, uh, successful artists, the ones that are doing it for a social purpose, not, I mean, there is, you know, there is catharsis in art, right. Clearly. Um, but if your intention as an artist is to inform the social landscape, uh, then you have to be a good persuader. It isn't just the quality of your art, but it's, it's showing the idiosyncrasies and the merit behind why this art should have a voice in the social narrative. And so you can be a great technician and I kind of feel I'm a tech, I'm more of a technician than an artist. You can be a great technician. You can fashion material together really well, but if you can't, if you can't weave a good story, and if you can't be a good persuader, uh, then the art really only just stands for you and, and, and doesn't have any merit or, or, or, or, or will need to be, um, I, I, you know, called out or identified by, you know, the greater population. And, and I, and I, I think of like Andy Warhol, right? A soup can, a soup can really that's art. No, that's not the art. The art was in his ability to persuade a bunch of people who are collectivist thinking that that's just how asset has some social merit. There's so many things that you just threw out there that I feel like we can latch on to. Um, the first, I think, is this idea of being a technician. So I think what I hear you saying is you can create something that is technically well done, and it may not actually, um, have that additional something that draws people toward it as something worthy of note. Yeah. So, right, right. So I would say that, uh, on the, on the continuum of artistic development, uh, I don't, first of all, um, you should never stay static, right? Because as soon as, as soon as you start to stay static, you entropy, right. You started to K. So my particular art with respect to figure as kind of reached its, uh, its apex, um, with the work that I currently have. Um, and I don't think that I need to prove to myself that I can execute really well. Uh, you know, figures, figures that are anatomically accurate. Uh, but that the only way that I can convey spirit attitude or intent is by posturing the figures. All right. So my father likes to call this one, the supplicant. Right. Um, and I had mentioned this earlier, I think to Kevin, um, in, uh, another discussion, uh, about how, if you take a look at all of my work, in their collective of form, the narrative emerges, right. That artistic narrative, the thing that I'm trying to say, uh, it, but it can only really be seen in the totality of all of my pieces together right now, now because of their form, their posturing supplicant, even by the name, uh, begins to, uh, you know, bring into focus, um, the emotion, the feeling that catharsis I had mentioned earlier that that's how I am, that my catharsis is manifested in the collective figure posturing of my pieces. But I say that I'm at the apex of it because I don't need to make another good figure I've done that I now would like to, to on that, on that journey of artistic expression now that I, now that I cause I'm self, you know, self-taught right. All right. Well, okay. I've got to this point now, how do I, how do I use the forms, uh, as a manifestation of my, my mental cathartic narrative. Um, and I, if I was a writer, I'd be able to put it pen to paper and I could tell you exactly, you know, how I, you know, and I'm not, not self-deprecating, but you know, I have an angst and I have, um, you know, feelings of inadequacy and I, all those things, he even now, I kind of wonder why people are even interested in looking at the things I do cause I'm, I mean, it's not like I went to Rhode Island Institute of design and studied for eight years and got an MFA or whatever those are. And, uh, and you know, toil for years and years and years of studied anatomy. And no, I, I was just unable to do it. Um, so having said that, so there we are at the, uh, at, at this Zenith, right. So what I wanna do now, uh, not that you are a vast, but, uh, what I'd like to do is to, um, approach future figurative pieces with a, with a, a more overt sense of expression, right. And, and perhaps more abstract, um, as an author, uh, w the general practice is to write rewrite, write again, until you take an entire paragraph, you can narrow it down to a couple of sentences, right? Well, as a sculptor, I want to do the same thing. So whatever it is, you know, whatever the feeling that I want to evoke, I want to do it in, in, in, in more subtle form and in pure form. And the, I wish I could paint. I can't, but in the medium that I've can chosen in vis-a-vis clay, uh, I think I can achieve that. Um, I'll still use, uh, a kind of anthropomorphic form, but I'm not gonna make it so anatomical accurate, because anyone can, a lot of people can do figures. Few, few people, um, can persuade an evoke emotion. Right. So as we're looking at the supplicant, what type of catharsis were you I'm working on with this figure? I feel like I should have a couch instead of a chair right now, because You brought it up. I wouldn't have actually gotten there unless, you know, you out there. Uh, I mean, I, as I, as I said earlier, I mean, it's a, it's a sense of angst, right? Uh, maybe a sense of despair, um, sense of loneliness. Um, there are a lot of lot, or a lot of darker things, uh, hope the one I'm working on now, uh, you know, there, they're all kind of, you know, she's floating off, but she's got a hand earth kind of mortal savior, I don't know, But isn't that really okay. And actually pretty wonderful. The idea that you are embracing your own vulnerability and your, um, exposing your own significant kind of interactions with the world in your art. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, um, it takes a lot of courage to do that. Um, not that I'm any kind of courage, courageous hero or anything, but a lot of it, and that doesn't just to art, you know, that idea about, uh, exposing one's inner thoughts and beliefs, and, uh, is true across the spectrum, whether or not it's art or design or business, anytime an innovator comes up with a, a new idea, they're opening themselves up to tremendous criticism. Um, and, uh, I'm actually kind of used to it because as a, as a furniture designer, I mean, I know a little bit about having to defend one's one's creation, not so much on the business side. Um, I was really fortunate as a, as a designer that, uh, pieces that I did resonated with other people, and they actually wanted to live with and be surrounded by my pieces, but not only that, but, you know, as a, as a designer, actually, there's a, there's a correlation. So between, um, art and your ability to persuade and design and your personal ability to persuade, um, so an artist, uh, owes really nothing to anybody other than to him or herself, right. I'm doing this for my re my reason, right. I'm saving time on the couch, basically by doing this, if you like, I'm really pleased, but I'm only pleased I don't, or don't like it, and that's okay, because you don't have to share my inner inner catharsis. Right. But as a designer, a designer is entirely different. And I actually have, um, a fair amount of resentment to artists out to architects, designers, interior designers, who designed for their own hubris. And without regard to the way in which it impacts the built landscape. So a designer, and it goes back to earlier around, you know, defending oneself. Okay. Now that you've created an, uh, an object, you now have to persuade an entire infrastructure and shift a paradigm. So we have a PR and shifting paradigm is not as easy as you, as one would think, because, you know, when you onboard a bit of information, it's a very indelible moment, right. That's exactly how the world is forever. Yeah. Until an innovator comes up with another idea is that I want to shift the paradigm a little bit, and people are very resistant to it. So designers, unlike artists, um, owe it to the organization and the community to be persuaded to understand the validity, um, and the practicality, uh, and the efficacy of, um, either a new way of doing as an innovator or a new way of constructing as a, as a manufacturer. So it's not like I'm not used to pushing the boundaries and convincing people of changing your position. Um, Tell me about this idea of, um, coming from a competitive family. Well, Hmm. Uh, What way was your family competitive? How did, how did that end up kind of being a part of the, Well, I, I can sum it up by saying that we had a very authoritarian father and four boys, and that's the end of that. I mean, when you have that much testosterone in, in one room, uh, and then of course I'm the youngest. So, uh, there is, uh, uh, in geology it's called sublimation, right? I mean, the larger entity, uh, is, is, you know, rises at the top and then everything else gets sublimated below it. Well, as the youngest, you cut in the youngest, in, uh, in the hierarchy of family structure, generally it gets sublimated, um, to the, the more dominant members, uh, siblings, right. So I had to, uh, assume very traditional unexpected roles actually in a youngest is always, uh, you know, it has to be a little bit more flamboyant to gain attention, becomes a comedian to gain attention. I mean, these are all roles that most clinical psychologists understand that are inherited, uh, in, in family structure, the lone standout, of course, being a single child that, Well, I, I, I'm interested in this because in my family and I'm the oldest of 10, um, it's been suggested that our family has a certain amount of competitiveness, but I think it comes out in a different way in our family. It's just seems like everybody has wanted to do. It's just expected that we do well, and that we are all striving for excellence in our, in our respective fields. And so when I, and I think because being in a family of 10 is not that different than being in a family of four with boys, right. That, that there is this kind of trying to, um, it's, it's a little bit of jostling for position, but it's really trying to understand your own identity, um, within the construct of the group. And I find that really interesting because I think all of us believe that we are truly individuals or want to be truly individuals, but most of us are really who we are as a result of the context that we evolve in. Well, that is absolutely true. And it doesn't surprise me that you're the oldest, by the way. Oh, but you should meet my next sisters down that you would think they were the oldest and they're twins. Yes. So all of it is, well, maybe they had that going, they had it, they had a twofer, so they had a twofer deal against you. So, But they're excellent. And I, and I, and, and I think that it is interesting because for you, it actually kind of pushed you to really claim your identity early on and really work toward you kind of went the straight path, but then you kind of said, no, I want to be who I am. I'm going to keep doing this design work. I'm going to keep doing this artistic work. And it might not feel that great at the time, but as a result of the struggle you get to the other side, and it seems like it's been very valuable for you. Um, well, I think, I think nature finds a way of, of, you know, parody and, you know, balancing itself out. Um, no, there are oftentimes that I wish I wasn't a creative, um, I, I don't know what it's like to work in a cubicle at an insurance company, but I've got to imagine that if you can, I don't even want to, because it sounds so disparaging. If I say, if you can tolerate it, how liberating it must be to say that, no, I'm quite content. I come to work at nine, I leave at five, uh, process these papers. And again, you know, if you have the constitution for how liberating that must be, because, uh, but to have constant yearning to do things, I can't sit still. I I've gotta be making things. Um, uh, it's vexing, it's exhausting. Yes. And I think you're right, that it would kill you in a different way if you weren't in the place that you, if you were in the cubicle doing the insurance claims, which for some people is, is really a great way to live their lives, but for you and your particular personality and disposition. Yeah. Well, I, I am, I admire those people for their ability to do that. Uh, if I was put in that position, I, I honestly don't know how I would get through my life. So I admire them for that. And I am so incredibly grateful for the life that I've had, that I stumbled into, uh, a family that builds things, builds furniture, builds buildings that I've, you know, I was able, I have a lovely wife. Who's supportive who in her herself is a creator and a builder, not, not in the art world, but she is a, she understands the courage. It takes to, to build new things and take those. And so I am incredibly grateful that I have a, a universe or my immediate universe around me, uh, is set up to allow for, for creativity and innovation. Um, and, uh, you know, the creative build process, I just came off a job. Uh, we, we bought an investment property down in the Caribbean. Uh, my wife champion the property and she now manages it. But if not for that, I never would have been able to build a house in the Caribbean. Um, you know, someone once said that the unexamined life is not worth living and I'm in, I am all in, uh, any, well, you know, a little bit about, uh, challenging horizons and varying occupational pursuits. Absolutely. And, and I, I like you, I would never want to live a life different than the one that I have. And the ability to spend time examining one's life is it is actually a privilege of some sort, I think, because there are a lot of people who find themselves in places where they they're so worried about just basic survival, that it's hard to take the time to step back. So I think you're right to find yourself not only, um, the son of somebody who is an entrepreneur who created a new and different life, um, older brothers who kind of created a sense of competitiveness for you, and then now to be with Pam and in her contribution to your ability to keep doing this. I mean, it can both be incredibly challenging and also really perfect for the person that you are. Yeah. And so, yeah, ask yourself, you I'm 57 years old, how much was by design and how much it was by chance? Those are good questions. Well, And I think, you know, another thing I'm very grateful for us having, you know, lived in a place in time, uh, that allowed for perhaps more design in one's lifestyle and, and less chance we, and I'm not sure that how much that's gonna go into the future, but living in rural Maine at the time that I did see, I mean, it was, I would say maybe 80% design and 20% chance Do you think that people are longing or that now that we've gone through this digital age and people want these touch points, the solidity, the, Yeah. They wanted it before they wanted it before the COVID, um, people have all, you know, uh there's um, we all want to be recognized as having lived, um, in, in, in some way. And some of us get to leave a more lasting impact of our existence. And some of us can only paint graffiti on a wall, but all of us have that. So it's a huge, you know, that it's a human need. Uh, it it's, it's a manifestation of consciousness that I was here and maybe I only do it on as a cave painting, but you know what I was here. Um, we all have it now, uh, fortunately in the art world, um, some of us can't create, uh, as a lasting visual remembrance, some of us, uh, don't want to, um, you know, graffiti of sidewalk. Um, but for those of us who are in the middle, they can, they can procure those things. And so they can pick and choose of a cornucopia of fashion style design, which one best represents their belief system. So that if they were able to build a piece of furniture, they were able to sculpt a piece of sculpture. These are the things that I identify with. So we all have it and, and some of us have to acquire it. Um, yeah, We started this conversation joking about the master of the universe idea, and I've actually kind of become convinced that really what you're saying is you really have designed your life. So you, you've kind of created this sort of mastering of your own universe, which actually is quite, it's not like you're trying to master other people it's that you want permission, you've given yourself permission to have a life that you designed on purpose. Do you think you're doing that for your children? Uh, no I'm doing, I guess I don't know anything else to do. Well, I meant, are you also doing it for your children? No. If I were doing it for my children, uh, I would be much more disciplined. Uh, I would be a better role model for my, I only have one daughter I'd be a better role model for her. Um, as my father was for me and my brothers, um, we learned a work ethic. We learned sacrifice of one's own desire. I mean, the way. Yeah, because the way when I hear you put it that way, I feel like that, um, I I've perhaps too selfish too, um, that, uh, that, um, I'm not maybe, you know, working towards a greater good. So when I was a kid, we, we worked as a collective. Um, and, uh, we worked, uh, as a family, as a collective unit, and there's a lot to be said for that. And, and I wish in many ways, um, and listen, I'm not alone in this, because again, if you worked in an insurance agent, you're not bringing your kid to work. Uh, but I, I wish that perhaps, um, I yearned for those days of, of working in Neil Grange, oh, it was an old shop that we renovated. Uh, and we all had our roles either sweeping the floor or stacking wood, and then later building furniture and excuse me, building showrooms and whatnot, um, that, uh, I felt like I was, you know, kind of a part of something. So I'm not trying to be a role model for my daughter if I were well, I'm a role model in a, in a way of, you know, find your own path, but I'm not a role model when it comes to, um, teaching her the responsibility of working in a, in a group and owing other owing owing something to other members in that group. Right. Um, working in a collective way, artists, artists unfortunately are very lonely bunch. Uh, you know, we don't, again, designers are not lonely at all, but artists are very lonely. So yeah, not sure where I'm going with that whole thing with Sabine, but, um, be nice to be nice to give her a common goal. Well, how old is she now? She's 15. Yeah. I suspect you. I suspect it's similar to my own children who are now almost 21 plus, and, uh, they're going to come up with their own goals. Right. So what you're doing is you're kind of, you're providing the environment, the ecosystem, the media, and that's, that's all we really can do as parents, right? Yeah. Role models. You do the best you can to guide them along. I want to talk about how that's made. I Would love to hear that. Yes. So I brought some show and tell, um, let me just, first of all, tell you the origin of how I, uh, how I came up with this form. So my Pam is, uh, is, uh, uh, you ever hear the artists seal kissed by a rose. So she's, seal's number one fan, uh, and this is an homage to her, to, to the artist. So, uh, there was an album cover. I don't know. I think it was like 19 2000 or 94. It was a, it was a, a collective, anyway, it appeared on an album cover like 1994, something like that. Uh, and of course it was two dimensional. So, but as an, uh, this, so I picked up a lot of cues, uh, from that. And that's how I got the idea for this pose. And then what you do is you start with this, it's, it's actually clay. Well, I mean, it's actually, um, plastilina, it's not clay. So plastilina, uh, is an oil base and it never truly hardens, but it is, it is highly malleable. And this is you buy him these chunk forms, uh, and through a process of, of hand work and tools, uh, you fashion in, in, you can fashion it. Now, I generally don't work with a lot of tools when I'm working with clay. And the tools that I do work with are very rudimentary. You know what I mean? They're like, uh, sorry, I should have brought some of them, but you know, they're sticks and they're bent steel and then maybe steel with a, with a wire wrapped around it, which is how I get the texture. Um, and I'll tell you something that's interesting about working with clay is that, uh, there's such an immediate connection between what's going on in your mind and what, what, what appears in your ultimate work. And I think the same is true with paint, right? I mean, either you have a pallet of paint and you slap it on the canvas and there's a direct connection, um, and save the, the medium of the brush. You know, that's, that's an active stream of consciousness. Well, clay actually works in much the same way. I mean, it, it responds in real time. Um, I've, I've never actually, you know, as a designer, I've never actually worked on the computer. I mean, I know how they operate they're necessary. They're another tool, but I don't want to spend my time learning the computer mostly because, uh, it's an interference it's if I had to think about what button to click, what F1 return control, delete to con I would have forgotten what I was thinking about. Uh, so I, I love the immediacy and the F and the free flow of thought, uh, and my, and, you know, to, to the expression. So you start with clay, which is around an armature. There are five steps in, in bronzing, uh, and it takes a lot of patients. Uh, and if you ever want to make, uh, a small fortune as a sculptor and bronze, start out with a large one, because it is really cost, uh, uh, costly. You start out with a, a positive, the positive is in the clay. So now you've made this sculpture, then you make a mold and the mold is a rubber, uh, and then a plaster and you what's called a clamshell. It comes apart in two parts, the mold is made, and now you've got a hollow cavity. Um, and in that hollow cavity, you then pour what's called the lost wax, right? So we're all familiar with loss wax. And the reason that it's called loss wax is because it's literally going to become a visceral good, uh, when put in the Kilmer. So now you've got the, you've got the mold you pour in the rubber mold, you pour in the wax and you get something that looks like that. Uh, so that is lost wax. Uh, and, um, uh, then the wax then gets dipped in, uh, a silica and it gets a consecutive bath of silica. Um, until you get a shell that's about a half an inch thick, um, the silica shell then gets put into a kill. The killings brought up to about 2,400 degrees in temperature. The wax melts away it's lost. And then that leaves a void. Now you've got a silica shell hardened empty because this is no longer in it then. Uh, and so much of this hasn't changed since the bronze age, you'd take a crucible full of molten bronze, and you bring it into, uh, where you've put the shells. Now, the shells are in a, in a, in a box, a box of sand. And, uh, you pour in, out of the crucible, you pour in the molten bronze that then falls down through all these caverns. And this would have, this is not an actual example because if it were, it would have, what's called gates and spurs. And that allows for air to evacuate and, uh, would take care of, of air pockets where the bronze can't get in because of what's called, um, uh, angle of incidence. Um, now you've got the bronze and it's got all these spurs on it, and it's very crude and you've got to cut those off. Um, and sandblast the thing, weld all the joints back together. Again, this probably had eight or nine different molds, and they all have to be welded together, sandblasted again, and then, uh, more artistry because wherever there was a weld, then you've got to go in with, with metal tools. And resculpt where the joint was. That would have been of course, um, a uniform with clay, but now he's interrupted with a weld. So you resculpt that, and it's really hard because now you're dealing with bronze, not clay, and you've got to do it in such a way that, that there's no well joint visible. And then finally you can apply the patina, which is a potash. Um, and, uh, well this happen