Defying Labels: Jack Soley

Today I have with me a man who defies labels, but is well known within the greater Portland and main region for many creative pursuits. This is Jack Soli. Thanks for coming in today. Thank you so much for having me. So, I think, you know, when I look down through all of the things that you've done in your life, I can understand why you don't want to be limited to being labeled in one specific way, cuz you have a lot of interest and you've done a lot of things. Yeah, I, I think I have a lot of passion for, um, many things and I, I, um, I treat life as, as sort of one long continuum rather than, um, having a specific professional pursuit, for instance. It just, it's many things fit into that continuum. So I try not to, I try not to think of, um, segregate my life between, for instance, my swimming or my, or my development, my, my, um, real estate development or my work with nonprofits or instructing an Outward Bound, whatever it may be. It's all part of the long process. So for you, what is has risen to the top over the course of your life? That's an easy one actually. So my work with Outward Bound, um, clearly has risen to the top. So I, um, I actually discovered Outward Bound when I was 15. I was, I grew up in Camden and mid-coast and, um, was in a small boat with a friend of mine, um, heading out to Swans Island. Got caught in a horrific storm, spent the night bailing the boat and in the morning we drifted 16 miles off course into Hurricane Island. And that's how I discovered Outward Bound. Went back the next summer and took a course and knew that that was something that would be with me the rest of my life. Um, and then, so literally the day after I graduated from college, went back, did a staff training, um, with Hurricane Island Outward Bound and remained, you know, with the program while I was pursuing other things, um, for 14 years. And then, um, had a kid and so my daughter was born, had to leave the school cuz they wanted to spend time with my daughter. Um, but then rejoined, my daughter just graduated from college. So found that it was a good , it was like the Nexus point, uh, actually rejoined the school. So three years ago I rejoined. Um, I wanted to rejoin simply as a staff member, but they said they wouldn't have me as a staff member unless I came as a trustee as well, . So it was the ultimatum. Um, so I rejoined and then actually refounded the, um, with lots of help, the, uh, sea kayaking program, which had been defunct for 20 years. And, uh, so I've training staff and, um, and teaching courses, um, for these last three or four years. Actually took a year off because of Covid of course. So yeah, that by far is the thing that I always think when I'm most proud of the various things I've done in my life for sure. And I know that our, one of our artists at Portland Art Gallery, Cooper Dragon, it has an Outward Bound connection. Do you know Cooper through Outward Bound? Yeah, so Cooper and I, um, we were co-instructors on a sea kayaking course many, many years ago and became fast friends. Um, outward Bound courses are extraordinarily intense and intimate, and it's sort of like group therapy in a very stressful outdoor environment. Um, and we intentionally create that stress by putting our students in very uncomfortable situations, um, environmentally as well as, um, psychically and, and just pulling things out from them. And so Cooper and I had a, a really wonderful course together, and so we've been friends since. I think that was probably sometime in probably the earlier, mid nineties. I've lost track since then. So that simultaneously sounds intriguing and also a little terrifying, the idea that you're helping people to do things that they, uh, don't feel comfortable with, but they're learning a lot about themselves at the same time. Do those things have to necessarily coexist? Uh, well, I think, and when I say, when you say other people, it's for myself as well. So putting myself in situations where I am at least mildly uncomfortable, and whether it's on an Outward Bound course or the real estate development projects that I do, or any of the many pursuits in my life, um, I, I think that's where the most, you know, potential for growth is in that, you know, in, in the, the, uh, tried and true expression, outward Bound is pushing our comfort zone, but when we push beyond where our, where we believe our physical or mental limits are, I think is where the ground is ripe for, for lessons, for wisdom, and for growth. And so that's, that's what I've always felt. And so yeah, it's, it's, at times it's more uncomfortable than I would like it to be. Certainly. And I I, in an Outward Bound courses, I've put myself in those positions and, and certainly had, um, paid the consequences for that because things are not always, you can't plan these things. They just, they, they, they happen organically. And, um, and you can't plan somebody's response to be putting a situation that they're very uncomfortable with. And that could be, again, an environmental response, environmental situation, meaning it's, uh, we're in a, you know, high wind offshore trying to get back to an island, or we're in a group circle having a chat about some deeply personal situation that they have gone through in their life. But of those situations, I think it's important to, um, to actually put yourself there and to, you know, let your guard down and, and perhaps, you know, put the ego aside and, and get to the core of, of what it is that makes us human. It's interesting for me to hear you talk about people who are willingly in including yourself, putting themselves in places of discomfort when I think that that's not as common a thing for many people as Outward Bound might suggest. You know, I, I, I mean, I'm working the healthcare field, most people come to see me because they don't want discomfort and they're trying to avoid it. So what is it about discomfort that somehow continues to be a draw? Yeah. So, um, yeah, and I'm also an EMT as well as I volunteer as an EMT on an ambulance occasionally. So, so Should I ask you what you don't do, would that be a shorter list, maybe or ? Um, well, unfortunately I have a very, um, uh, robust intellectual curiosity that gets me into many situations that I wish I could extract myself from at times. Um, but I, I think back to your question, I think the important thing is that when we are in a place that is unfamiliar ground to us, then the walls that we typically put up, the barriers, I think are, are not, we don't have as easy access to that, that sort of defensive mechanism that we normally would have. And so, again, that I think is where we have growth. Um, for instance, um, you know, many of the other things I do, I, whether it's ultra-marathon long distance swimming, it's, I put myself in a place that is extraordinarily uncomfortable, and then I see how I respond, how I react to that situation. And, and that's not, it's not something again that you can, you can create a playbook for it. It happens and you work through it. And I think in that process of working through things is where you find, you know, what the true, whether it's folks call the true metal of, of a human. But to me it's, it's, um, it's how you respond to these things is, is how you respond in life. It's how you, how you navigate your way through this challenging path of life. So, yeah, and I, I, um, I I believe it's important to continually take yourself out of that place that, that whatever it is that brings you, um, into a place of, of sort of constant calm and put yourself into a place that will, you know, bring you beyond where you have a level of comfort. So if that answers your question, it's a long-winded way of saying, yeah, I think there's growth there, so let's try it , let's do It. Well, and I think I, I mean, I think the idea in Buddhism is that life is suffering and, and it's not something we can avoid. So what you're saying is, if we can't avoid the suffering, then how do we understand ourselves better through suffering, and how do we learn and how do we interact differently with the world? Yeah. And so, yeah, and in in Buddhi theology, I mean, sometimes suffering is, um, I think to me it's almost elevated as a worthy cause. And I'm not necessarily saying we should suffer other than sort of to drop the id the ego, the sense of whom we are, and to instead to instill ourselves with the potential for all of these other areas of growth that we wouldn't necessarily have opportunities for. Because we wake up in a day, we have a routine, we go through the day and we sort of know what we want to do. We have our goals and expectations, and then when a curve ball comes, you know, we instantly, there's this almost a reactive, you know, impulse that we don't feel comfortable to that. And so we'll try to redirect. And I say, well, I invite that. And it's not necessarily for the suffering, but it's, it's to, um, again, it's an area of, if, if it's an area where I can somehow expand my understanding of who I am and of the world, and that's where I will go, not all the time, . Cause that makes chaos , which just allowing that opportunity certainly is, is, is, um, I think, you know, I behooves all of us at some time in our life when we're, when we can bring that into our lives at discomfort. Well, and I think as you're talking, I'm thinking it, it's a very kind of metaconcept that you're observing yourself through a state of discomfort and how you react and what you can learn from it and maybe what you can apply moving forward. So it's almost a kind of a practicing that you're engaging in. Yeah. Um, you know, I had several majors in college and one of them in fact was theology. And, um, and so practice, I I, I, I wish I had, I wish there was enough clarity if you were actually considered a practice. Um, but certainly there is a, there's a path I've chosen and that path invites that discomfort at different times. And you know, I mean, I'm, right now I'm developing workforce housing, which is extraordinarily challenging and, and, and probably, um, you know, the least renumerative manner of developing I could have chosen. Um, I've been in the real estate sphere for a long time and I could certainly, you know, make a lot of money doing something else. But, um, workforce housing is more rewarding in terms of, um, the client base. And it's rewarding in terms of trying to pioneer a new type of development. And so I, I, um, you know, I'm, I'm have the good fortune to be at a place of, of relative financial comfort where I can make that decision, of course. Um, but, but certainly I'm putting a lot at risk to do this. And, and again, I think it's, I think the reward hopefully, um, in terms of personal growth, in terms of professional growth, in terms of seeing folks, you know, realize hopefully the benefit of, of that, um, I think is important to all of us in my community, especially. W what was it that got you to the place where you thought you wanted to focus on workforce housing? Well, again, focus is a, is a loaded term for me because I'm I'm focused on many things right now, but it's, it's one of the pursuits. Um, so, you know, I sort of by accident got into real estate. Um, one of my brothers, um, asked me to be involved in an equity position in real estate, um, back in the late eighties, um, before the first great crash in recent memory. And, um, and I, uh, real estate was probably the furthest thing from my mind at the time. I think I was, um, I was, uh, teaching at King Middle School, um, youth at risk and working it outward bound courses and was designing furniture. Um, thing is, that was, um, my thesis in school was modern furniture design. Um, and so I, um, got into real estate sort of begrudgingly, I would say, and through the course of many years, realized that it was one thing that gave me the freedom to do many other things that I wanted to pursue. And, um, led me over a bunch of years to the planning board for the city of Portland. I was on the planning board for several years, and, um, many projects came across my desk when I was on the planning board. Um, but they were all market rate housing, and there was this large cry for, you know, the housing crisis and affordable housing and then this missing middle, the, the, um, the idea that, that there is subsidized housing for affordable housing, and the subsidies come from the municipal, the state, the federal level. There's of course, market rate housing, which is, um, you know, all other housing is expensive housing in the, in, in Maine at this point, certainly in southern Maine. But the middle, the housing for, um, school teachers, police officers, firemen, everyone in the restaurant industry, um, there literally was no housing in the city of Portland or where there was a limited amount of housing for folks like that, that that didn't qualify for the subsidies and couldn't afford the market rate housing. And so as I was at the planning board, and there was a lot of discussion on the state level, a municipal level about this missing middle and the workforce housing, nobody was doing anything about it. And it was extraordinarily frustrating to me. And so the city of Portland, um, put out an RFP for some Bayside properties. They were interested in creating workforce housing. And so I, um, had stepped down from the planning board, and I decided to respond to that RFP and put a proposal in, um, to build 23 condos for workforce housing. And workforce housing is defined nationally as between a hundred and 120% of air median income. Um, so in the city of Portland area, median income is roughly say 75, 70 $8,000. So at 120%, roughly 80, $90,000, you take a third of your income, and that's what you can sustainably afford for housing. So I decided to try to build condos that were affordable. And what that meant under those guidelines was around 215 to $220,000. Well, that was 2017 that we put in the R F P. And of course, you know, the, the cost of construction, it's only gone up, but it was certainly high then. Um, and I said, how in the heck can I make condos for $215,000, even though the land cost was, uh, was not full value. The city I ended up selling, selling me the land for, you know, for maybe 15, 20% undervalue. Um, and so the solution after sort of casting about for a while was to create micro housings, um, very small units. And so the project, and not only that, but to create some market rate units in the same complex that would then subsidize the workforce housing, because I understood that I, the margins on the workforce housing were gonna be little to none. And so the only way to do it without any subsidies was to actually have some profitable housing in the same complex that would subsidize the rest of the housing. And so we built Paris terraces, it was sold out, um, well before we got our certificate of occupancy, um, 23 units altogether. Three were market rate, 20 were workforce. And it created a, what I would consider an extremely healthy community because it was a mixed income community all in the same building. And it, it allowed people that wanted to remain in the city of Portland. I mean, workforce housing, frankly at that point was, was called Bedford or Westbrook. If you lived in Portland, I mean, there wasn't, wasn't enough housing, wasn't enough affordable housing. And so people were having to move far afield to continue to work in the restaurant business in Portland, for instance. We, I think of those 20, um, workforce housing units 17 were first time homeowners. And these were folks that had no opportunities to purchase other homes in Portland. And up until that point, I had built a bunch of high-end market rate condos in Portland. I had built a wide variety of housing. And, um, and at those closings, it was typical that I would be across the desk, across the table from a lawyer who would be representative of the person who was actually buying the property. I might never actually meet the owner at these closings for pariss terraces or workforce housing closings for the first time I actually met the homeowners and they were more emotionally invested than I had thought they would be. And at these closings, I was getting hugs, there were people crying there were at, because it was their opportunity. I mean, in America, our, the most important investment we'll make in our life is usually our home. And, and they were closed out from that opportunity, and all of a sudden Paris terraces allowed them to do that. And so there was no lawyers at the closing, right? That actually all three work, all three market rate housing did have lawyers , which was, which, which again reinforced this idea that I really would like to see the homeowner, I wanted to see the people that would be buying these, these units. And so, so that, that was, for me, that was, you know, that was the closer, that was the done deal, and this was something I wanted to pursue. Um, and so the question was how to do that efficiently because my life is full with many other things. And, and how to do that, um, affordably to me, because again, there is just, there's no margins on the workforce housing until there are subsidies. There's LD 2003, it's a state legislation to state, um, a law that if it goes into effect, there will be for the first time subsidies for workforce housing, but there still are not to this day. Um, and so I made a call to Dana Totman, who at the time was running Aveta housing and said, Dana, I would like to create a community where we can see the full cross section of American, the same community. So we'll create some affordable housing, which he will do through low, low income tax credits, main state housing, I'll do some workforce workforce housing, and I'll do some market rate housing all on the same campus. And he or his board, or all of them, like the idea enough that they agreed and we put in RFP in, um, for another piece of land in the city of Portland. Unfortunately, we were the runner up. We didn't, we didn't actually receive that. Um, and unfortunately that was over three years ago. Nothing has been built on that property to this day. So, um, and that's frustrating to all, all of us who are housing advocates. Um, but instead I was able to find a similar three and a quarter acre piece of land in Westbrook. And we will, after two years of going through entitlements, we will be breaking ground in July, possibly early August. Um, and we'll be building a total of roughly 198 units on that site. And it will include, um, subsidized 55 plus housing from Avesta, my company. And I've partnered with a gentleman named Tim Hebert who owns Hebert Construction, um, which is the fourth generation contractor in the state. And so Tim and I are going to be building market rate housing as well as workforce housing on that site. Um, and we also built another project in Scarborough at the former fire police station where we built, um, Avesta building, um, 31 units of 55 plus subsidized housing. So that's, um, that's the direction I'm heading right now. And we're actually looking at five more sites, um, as I speak today, . So, um, it's regaining momentum and, and, um, as a result, you know, a lot of other municipalities are actually calling and asking if we can do similar projects in their towns. So extraordinarily exciting. Um, I just need to find out a way to make money . And I think really the only way to do that is to subsidize in-house is to create market rate housing as a component of the bigger picture. And, and I think that's what we need to do today, is we need to say, I'm gonna be creating some housing that perhaps has low to no margin, but on the other end, on the back end, I'll create some other housing that will pay for all of this and for my time and energy. And because ultimately we're all capitalists and we need to figure out a way to make it work. And I think we have a model that is successful at this point. So long-winded answer to your question, um, but that's, that's, that's one of the places I'm spending a lot of my energy right now. Well, I appreciate your doing that because working in healthcare, you know, one of the things that we struggle with, and I work for a system that's up in the Augusta Waterville area, is even in that area, we're having a hard time bringing people in that can actually find places to live. And so we can't, we can't get nurses to come stay, we can't get, um, physical therapists, you know. And so I think that what you're describing is very real, and it, I think it's a very real issue even in the non-urban parts of Maine. Very much so. And so we're looking as far a field as Louis in an Augusta, and I have had conversations with me medical center because they own a tremendous amount of land, and I'm hopeful that at some point they'll make decisions about that land. And we could build workforce housing if even only for the folks within Maine Medical Center with their own community. But again, there are, there are people that cannot afford housing in the Portland area that want to live and work in the Portland area. And so the medical industry is one prime example, but we're getting calls from a lot of other industries and saying, we have land, can you do this? Uh, you know, I, I've got a call from a, a large, the, the, uh, city manager of a community in southern Maine who said, we own lots of land. Can you come down and build workforce housing for us? I said, I'd love to, but I have a lot on my plate right now and, you know, we'll look at it. And so there was a lot of things on the back burner at this point, but yes, and I'm, I'm hopeful that that hospitals, the medical industry will step up and say that they will, you know, help to create this housing for, for their own employees, really for the sake of their own employees and, um, which will create a healthier community overall. So it's, it's just a, it's, I I think there has been a dependency on subsidies and, and, um, folks looking towards, you know, whether it's at the state, municipal, federal level to someone else to step in. And again, when I was on the planning board, I got tired of people talking about it, frankly, and talking about these subsidies and what could happen and said, there's gotta be a better, there's gotta be a better way to do this. And so that's where we are. So, uh, we'll see, I'm, I'm hopeful LD 2003 will create, will help create a change and, but I I, I do think that there has to be some element of, I'm not even sure if it's altruism, but certainly, um, it's, this is what's best of the community and we have to find people that will just will jump in and do what's right at some point On a different topic. Tell me about your interest in Art . So, um, as a, uh, as I mentioned, I did a thesis on furniture design, um, and in college. And so I have had a, um, long interest in art. My stepmother, um, was an artist and spent my childhood going from Maine down to down to the city, down to New York and soho and meeting her various art, art, art friends, artistic friends. And, um, so when my daughter was born, um, so I tried to do the furniture design route and it was, um, it's pretty exclusive and generally challenging place to get involved. It's often Italian designers that will come to the states and work. Um, but my daughter was born in 2000. I realized that I wanted to be able to stay home with my daughter as much as possible. And so I, um, I had some ideas for some products, and so I started doing product design and, you know, I had the good fortune of being able to license over 90 products over the next eight years and stay home and work for my kayak. Um, when , when my daughter was no off at, at, um, with her mom or daycare or somewhere else, I would be designing on the deck of my kayak. And then I had a little prototype shop back then and ended up, um, designing products for many different industries and had the good fortune of them selling and, and quite large numbers. Um, so, um, it provided enough revenue for a bunch of years and royalties for years after, in fact. So I went from that, um, to, um, I'd been collecting art, you know, at a very sort of local level for a long time and was always fascinated with sort of, um, I had Moby Dick was always one of my favorite stories, and then, and so loved the illustration and so decided to, you know, if I could purchase a Rockwell Ken, you know, and I was able to find, um, someone who actually had many of the original Rockwell Ken drawings and so, um, and started purchasing those. Um, but it's been sort of a lifelong pursuit that then, um, you know, between the design work I did. And, and it's, it's interesting when people always ask, you know, how were you successful designing products cuz? And I said, well, I, the one thing I didn't do is I, I didn't indulge in blue sky thinking. So what I would, I would find relatively small companies that had revenue between five and 50 million that were based in Maine, that I could actually have access to the owner or president of the company, and I would find a niche in their catalog, in their, you know, in their offerings that I thought were, they were missing. And so I designed a product, so I ended up designing a whole category of in window bird feeders, though I knew nothing about birds and that sold sensationally. Well, um, at one point I think I had a product in every national retail catalog in the country, you know, from L Lo B and the plow and hearth, the front gate, a sharper image. And, and that was a huge amount of fun and satisfaction. They ended up getting from there into the toy industry, designing a lot of wooden kit toys and many museums in the country would carry them because they were, they were fun toys that kids could put together. And then, um, and also in the outdoor industry, I designed some things such as a radar reflecting life jacket, um, which then I licensed to the US government actually, um, for the Navy. Um, so that sort of, that interest in design and invention frankly, um, sort of led me into many other avenues that ultimately brought me to the PMA to Portland Museum, um, where I, where I, um, spent a bunch of time just because I loved, you know, looking at art and, um, mark Beier called one day and asked if I was interested in becoming a trustee. Um, and so that has been a very fruitful relationship in terms of my access to curators. Um, but of course we're building a massive addition. And so I'm also the chair of the Building and Grounds Committee, and so I've taken an active role in the, um, in the visioning of that next step. And so, um, it, that's been an incredibly rewarding process. And so it's only brought me closer to the art community. And so I'm, I'm, I'm still a piece of that. I should also mention that I was also the chair of the Portland Public Art Committee for many years, um, which also put me in contact. And then as part of this, my association with a company named East Brown Cal, I have been populating buildings, um, now with my nephew with art, so in public spaces. And so that I've been purchasing local art for many years, um, you know, for those spaces. And that's been really wonderful. That's been a great opportunity. And like if you walk into Canal Plaza, you'll see Willie Hildreth, um, her wonderful Meanderings, it's the title of some of her work. And you'll see those, or you'll see Shoshana White or Tonya Hollander in, in the, um, in the Hyatt region, in the Hyatt Place Hotel on fourth Street. I think we purchased, you know, 417 photographs from Tony Hollander, who's a local artist. So, um, incredibly time consuming , but um, rewarding in many ways. That was the first Hyatt in the country that had exclusively local art, and so we had to get special permission, um, from Hyatt National for that honor. So, um, it's been, it's been a great process and, um, and I still, you know, the collecting piece is obviously a very privileged, you know, position to be in. And so I, I am, you know, ultimately hoping that the collection I put together will then go to a museum at some point, and it will become, you know, back in the public domain, which is ultimately I think what, what we should do with art, you know, or, or art that is appreciated by, um, by the greater public. And when you're doing the work on workforce housing, I mean, are you, are you thinking about this sort of artistic side of things and the importance of bringing beauty really to Everyone? Very much so. And so, um, uh, we worked with Kaplan Thompson, uh, in Paris Terraces, and, um, I, I have, um, that has actually the, it's not simply the integrity of the project, it's the design of the project. So when I say integrity, I want to build passive house standard, incredibly efficient units. We typically build 450 to 500 square foot units that cost, you know, utility cost is around 50 to $75 a month for heat and air and cooking and everything. Um, so incredibly efficient, but I think it's is important. We are creating a legacy of properties. So when you construct a building and it becomes part of the public domain for the next 50 or a hundred years, I think that environment that we are, it's important that we consider how it impacts our community and the mediocrity, I'll be very candid about it, that I have seen the construction, the city of Portland detracts tremendously from what has drawn us all to the city of Portland. And it's incredibly frustrating to me. And so I think it is incumbent upon every developer to put extraordinary effort into what we actually, what we're, what we're creating for design. The project I'm doing in Westbrook, um, with Avesta and Tim Hebert is we're working with Scott Simon's architects, um, and it's the first time that they have done a residential project that's not of higher education, some dormitories, and so new ground for them, but they have a design aesthetic that I tremendously appreciate and respect. Um, I, I could certainly have picked an architect that would've cost me a lot less per unit, but ultimately that's, that's part of the integrity of the project. And so it's, I I go up and down Franklin Street on a daily basis and I see the new project and it's, I'm, I'm thankful that we have another 55 plus low income project in Portland. And I look at that building and I think it's almost criminal that that is in the public way, that that, that, that building, if you've seen it, it's, it's, um, I I feel like it's almost disrespectful to us that ha that inhabit this place when we look at this building and it, it is, um, the, the design of it is, is, is not in keeping with what we would hope our built environment would look like. And I think that's incredibly important. Um, so I push whatever architect I work with, I push them hard , um, and I think they enjoy that, frankly. I mean, I, I think it's, we're working on a project on the West end right now with David Lloyd, who's incredibly talented. And so we've, I think we're on our fifth iteration now for some town homes and, um, and you know, I can see some frustration coming outta him, , but, um, but I think ultimately I think we'll all be proud of the project that is created. So yes, absolutely design is, is incredibly important. People feel proud of their home when they like what it looks like, you know, and, and, and people don't wanna look and, you know, it's, it's almost like a, um, uh, affordable housing in the States versus if you go to Holla