Encaustic Energy: Dale Roberts

Today I have with me Remotely artist Dale Roberts. Thanks for joining us today. You're welcome. Nice to be here. I always enjoy, um, having conversations with people who have their art right behind them because it gives me something fun to look at and also gives me a way to start the conversation out. Um, tell me about the pieces that you have right. Um, right in behind you in your house. Yeah, very good. Um, well, uh, these two pieces were both arrived at in a very different way. Um, the still life with, uh, the Dried Flowers was actually a group effort. Uh, on occasion will invite folks to the home and, uh, we'll have sort of a painting party in the studio. And, uh, so I heated up the wax and I had a still life there for folks to look at, but I had people who had no previous experience at all, and they were rather terrified of the idea of painting. So I showed them essentially how to put it on and then just told 'em, you go have at it. And so they did, and they had at it. And, uh, at the end of the time, uh, there was a lot of paint on there, , um, some of which was useful, in fact, more than you might think. And that became, uh, my mission was to, uh, sort of edit out what wasn't and make use of what was. And so I called the painting good company because it was a result of a night of, uh, fun interaction and, uh, and painting. And then, you know, me editing what was there, um, the one next to it, uh, called Corrosion and Light. And, uh, I do a lot of running, um, for a lot of reasons. I have two sons and it used to be just to keep up with them. Um, I've always loved to run. And so this was along a pathway on my way home, uh, from a day job I had for a long time. And, uh, I found the light just beautiful on this one November evening. And so after I'd gone home and showered and changed and ran back out there, uh, or I should say, I drove back out there and made some drawings and took some notes. And then I visited that spot probably I would say over the course of the painting, uh, eight or nine times, either making detailed drawings or taking notes or doing, uh, g gush color studies. And then I brought those back to the studio. Um, photographic references involved too to help with some details. But essentially it's from those sensations I get from life, um, I'm keenly aware of the, both the tyranny and the limitations of the camera. So, um, I can make use of it as a tool. And, uh, anyway, this painting took months to, to do, uh, it is in caustic start to finish. Um, it might be surprising to know that I do very little drawing on the panel ahead of time. Uh, pretty much just start putting in big s washes of color and then developing the painting gradually so it goes from general to specific. So, uh, yeah, in a nutshell that's how these paintings were arrived at. A last anecdote on the large landscape, uh, I tend to draw and paint in areas that not everybody will go to. They're not your typical picturesque spots. And I run into a lot of different sorts of folks when I'm doing that. And in this case was no different. Um, people feel unthreatened, so they'll just strike up a conversation with me and it's really interesting to hear what folks have to say. Well play that out a little bit for me. What, what did you encounter in your conversation when you were, um, working on this piece? Well, I have a lot of folks that would talk to me about their earlier experiences with art. And many of them who stop will say, I used to love to draw in paint, or, I've always loved to do this, but I don't do it anymore. Uh, others will say things like, why are you painting that ? Um, cuz they'll look at it and think there's nothing there. Um, but usually as I develop the drawing or the color study, they can see what I'm after and then I can talk to them about it. And I'll just say, you know, it's the way the light transforms what's out in front of us. And it's often seeing an everyday, uh, sort of backdrop that we haven't even noticed. And so, uh, you can have those kind of conversations with people. Um, you know, they want to know lots of particular things, you know, what are you gonna do with this? Where does it go from here? And that sort of stuff. Um, one case in particular that was rather interesting, I was drawing a bridge in Philadelphia and, um, I had a pretty good detailed drawing already underway, and I had noticed someone on a bicycle going across the top of the bridge. And I was there long enough that pretty soon I hear a voice behind me. And this person says, well, what are you doing? And I had turned around and looked and I saw, I'm making a drawing. He said, I can see that. Well, he was a police officer. And he said, what's this drawing for ? And I said, well, it's for a show that I'm going to have, and it's gonna be a large painting that I'm currently working on at home. Well, then he wants to see Id, he wants to see photographs of the thing. He wants to know where the gallery is, which happened to be right around the corner, um, pretty soon, a a a black and white police car stops. And this gentleman gets out, great big police officer, and he comes over, well, what's going on here? You know, ? And I thought, oh gosh, and same sort of thing. And then he looks at and the drawing and he says, you know, if this drawing wasn't so good, we'd have to haul you in . Well, as you can imagine, it had to do with, you know, some issues that go on, uh, bombings and stuff like that. They probably are wondering if I was making a diagram where it'd be a nice little spot to plan my attack. So the stuff that happens, you just can't, you can't account for, uh, it just all of a sudden happens. And there you go. So it's interesting that in both of the pieces behind you, you're describing an interaction with the world. So you've captured a still effect of really an entire scenario that took place over hours in one case. And, um, it sounds like months in the other, and it sounds like this happens to you on a regular basis, that you're, you're not just interacting with the light and, and the scene. You may also be interacting with people, You know, that's a very good, uh, observation. Uh, yeah. And, and I think that also points out some of the limitations of the photograph. You know, if I just whiz by and see something and I like it, take a picture, come home and work from it, I miss out on all of that other stuff. And it's very soon of you to pick that out because, uh, it's those interactions that can give fuel to the why of what goes on in painting. Um, it's not simply about how, and for me, why is, is probably what's been the driving force for keeping this alive for 40 plus years. And, um, you know, I can see it keeping me going for another 30 or 40 years. Uh, uh, so it's, it's just one of those consuming things that it's, it makes painting absolutely, um, vital and interesting. Now, my understanding from reading a conversation that we had with you for, um, a different, uh, different piece of, um, sort of profile in a different media is that you have a more of a farm background. You're not really coming from a, an art situation. Yeah, that's a, that's a good, um, a good thing to talk about as well. I grew up in upstate New York and, uh, about the geographic center of the state where winters are real and snow amounts are heavy. And I often joke that that's probably why I'm able to slog through paintings like this, because I'm determined. And, uh, you grew up in upstate New York in a farm, um, background and you become determined or you don't survive . And so, um, uh, yet I would say that I probably spent 80% of my childhood outside either fishing or, uh, building forts or drawing and painting. I started doing that at a pretty young age, certainly started drawing at, um, age five, six and drawing all the time, um, soon, you know, graduated watercolor painting and, and just went out and worked. Um, there wasn't a lot of formal training and, um, I had some experiences with a watercolor artist who was actually trained in the Philadelphia area who lives in upstate or did live in upstate New York. His name was Ralph Murray, and he was a, a wonderful man and a great encourager. And so, um, I had some of that, but to be honest with you, I had no clue that you could be an artist and make that work for your life. Um, it just wasn't surrounded with folks who thought that way or did those things. Um, my dad was a carpenter and I grew up doing carpentry work and, uh, house painting and all those things you do to manage. And, um, yet I love to read and I still do. And, um, it became evident that I would probably be moving away and, you know, doing the school thing. So, uh, yeah, even the beginnings of that were , um, rather unplanned at best. You know, I didn't have any money, so I thought, I'm not gonna go to school, figured I would join perhaps the service. And, uh, due to the efforts of a librarian at our school who was, um, pretty observant woman, uh, she said, no, you need to go to school. So I ended up applying to two schools because they said I can't afford to apply anywhere else. Took the s a t once because I was resentful. I had to pay for a test and ended up at r i t, uh, which was a very expensive school ironically. But, uh, I got grants and scholarships and work study and so there we go. Uh, but yeah, the rural background, I think, um, has a lot to do with my appreciation for light. And, um, uh, when I moved down here to the city area, I was always searching for something that was a little more like home. So Valley Forage, Lancaster, those areas were that breath of fresh air. But then I also found that the interaction between the natural world light and man-made structures really was very interesting to me. And so that, um, became an easy transition for me to do that. I noticed in looking through some of your pieces on the Portland Art Gallery website that you explore locations that are outside of where you live. You have several from Europe, I think one I saw was Prague. I, is this the same sort of idea that trying to find kind of life within an urban setting at times? Uh, yeah. I think, uh, first of all, it's been a, a wonderful thing to be able to travel. Um, and, um, we're speaking with somebody about it all last night, and we decided that the age that that magically opened the door for us was around 45 . Somehow at that point, the resources were there, the kids were old enough, we were able to do that. And so I had always wanted to travel, um, and had never done it before. So my wife Lisa, is a wonderful travel guide. Uh, she could be her own travel agent. Uh, she's a meticulous researcher and manages to find these places that are not only beautiful but historic and she knows me so well and knows what I'm interested in doing, that she will find places and throw them out to me that I know will, will pique my interest. And so, um, yeah, we've had opportunity to do that. And I would say I do bring this similar notions to Europe and to places that we visit. Um, had an opportunity to be an artist in residence in Teon Morocco for five weeks. And, uh, Lisa came with me, which was an unusual pairing. Often in artist in residence, they don't really want the spouse along because typically it's, well, when are you gonna be done painting? Rather go do something else. Well, very often Lisa will read poetry to me in the studio, um, or other books, and when she does, she'll assume the characters and, and read them. So our relationship is very different, and she knows what I'm after. She's always been, uh, a huge support. So she came along as well and, and really enriched the entire experience for everyone, which was really a neat thing. Uh, but back to how that relates to the work I do here, it's the same sorts of issues that are at play. But the other thing is I'm acutely aware of the age of the things that I'm painting. You know, very often, you know, they're, they're ancient and the things that we consider new here, uh, you know, they're considering, uh, as though it's just a, a motion in the wind. It just isn't permanent. Um, you know, a 200 year old place is like an addition, a new addition on their house . So, uh, I find that fascinating. I find, uh, entropy and the effects of time to be fascinating to try to capture, um, ideas of corrosion, uh, whether that's from, uh, metal or just from weathering, um, repurposing history written on a wall. Uh, that stuff to me is just fascinating. So it doesn't matter where I am, the stories have similarities, and yet they have their differences, and it's the differences that are so intriguing to notice and they expand my approaches and how I paint In caustic as, um, medium is actually quite ancient. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's one of the things that attracted me. I at, uh, r it, I started, um, getting interested in egg tempra, and so I, they put me in a graduate program as a sophomore. So, um, I jumped into studying egg tempra, which was pretty much on my own. And, um, true to form, when I finished up at Tyler, I thought, well, I'm gonna investigate en caustic. I've heard about it. I thought it would be interesting. And so I went for it. And, uh, for me, the permanence and the craftsmanship has always been a deal. Um, guy guess, growing up in the farming and carpentry community, the idea of doing things right was, uh, simultaneously doing them well. And so doing a painting right means that it be crafted well so that it will be there for future artists to learn from, to perhaps enjoy and for other folks to, to be able to live with. Um, my thinking is we owe that to the masters that came before us because they operated that way. If they didn't, you know, I wouldn't have been able to go look at, uh, Rembrandt's Anatomy lesson of Dr. Tot that was done, you know, 400 some years ago. Um, and I can't, and I can learn from it, and I can truly enjoy it. Uh, and I also love watching other people enjoy it. Sometimes that's the biggest fun. So yeah, the ancient piece, I think is a nice kind of a touchstone is, uh, how to get there in those older subjects, uh, those older places. Seems like it fits well. Yeah. So the juxtaposition that you're describing of, um, a sense of more permanence and rootedness, but also a sense of temporality is, is really pretty fascinating because you began our conversation talking about, um, interplay of light, which obviously is something that changes over the course of a day and a season and a year. Uh, and now you're talking about things that have been in existence or a legacy that has been around for, you know, hundreds of years In your mind, is it the, is it the conversation between those two that creates, um, kind of the, the joy of the art that you work on? Uh, you know, that's a, that's a great observation. Um, I would say it does. And I would say that, um, for me, the ability to, to turn the dial just a little bit either way can, you know, make for a vastly different experience on the work. Um, the emphasis of what I do, if I want it to be more about, uh, you know, that sort of wearing away of entropy, um, I can do that with a paint, you know, I can blast it with a heat source and watch it disintegrate before my eyes or melt and do things. Um, you know, as you notice, I, I paint, uh, definitely in a realistic manner. Um, and yet, uh, there's a lot of abstraction going on underneath that in concert with that. So the willingness to destroy gigantic sections of a painting or sometimes the whole thing and then bring it back, um, is something that relates to that, that sort of uncomfortable tension there between the things that are more lasting and the things that are so temporal. Um, I think that's just a fascinating dialogue. I think our culture's in the midst of that dialogue anyway. Um, and if you look back at ancient cultures, you know, they, they dealt with that. Um, I remember seeing some of the K crypt paintings and stuff that were done, you know, the, the temporal nature of the tomb here, but then the eternal nature of looking on and found that to be a fascinating and rich area to consider even in my own stuff. Um, you know, why make something that's gonna lapse, why make something at all that's meant to be looked at and put up on the wall? Uh, so it gets to those deeper questions. And, um, yeah, I, I think that that's a great observation. Uh, it's the kind of observation I hope people will make when they look at work and then engage in a conversation about it. Uh, to me, again, that takes it into an area that's way outside of the immediate reference and into something more of a dialogue. And that is how I approach my, my paintings, uh, from life. You, you mentioned that you like to run, and I believe you're a distance runner and you run distances several times a week, and I think you and I share that love. Uh, one of the things I love about running is that it is on a regular basis, uh, kind of being part of a changeable environment. So as I'm running today and we're, uh, we've just gotten out of a series of, um, rainy days, uh, you know, the ground is moist, the all the leaves are starting to come out and the birds are happy, and it's so different than it was a couple days ago. And I, I love not only seeing what changes where I am and where I normally run, but also when I go somewhere else and run in a space I've never been before, because I feel like it's a kind of a full body exchange with the environment. And I wonder if you also, when you travel, have a similar experience? Yeah. Uh, I, I think the running is also a great metaphor for that. Um, very often, uh, and I run regularly and I'll run, and sometimes I find myself solving visual problems while I'm running. Um, for a, for a time I ran with, you know, the earbuds in the whole bit, and I haven't done that now for a couple of years. I didn't used to do it, and it's too much a pain in the neck anyway, and I miss all those things you're describing. Um, I, I recall vividly and fondly in the fall when you start to hear those, those dry insects out there making their, their last sounds, um, you know, crickets and things and, and that rustle and the wind through the corn, uh, when you're running in a country place. So yeah, those are, those are things that, that truly do inform. And I think that being in different environments, um, it really does spark other ideas. Um, I've often said that I think artists are noticers, you know, we, we notice stuff and then we store it and bring it back. And sometimes those experiences of, uh, of being out in the environment and enjoying all those different sensations, uh, they come back and they inform your choices. And I think a big part of being, um, successful, certainly for me at implementing those things is to write them down. I might come back from a run and, you know, just jot down a few notes about what I experienced, and I've posteds everywhere, , and lately they've even become part of my still life paintings. Um, however, uh, they're there and they can sometimes just be a little reminder of this thing. Um, maybe just the word about the light, you know, it was pearly today, so what do I do to get pearly and how did that make me feel? And would it work with this particular image that I'm struggling with or working through? Um, so yeah, those sorts of things. And like the, the running in the moisture I ran yesterday and here it was that sort of dodge that you're playing with the weather and your phone app and you're saying, oh, well, I'm supposed to rain for the next hour. Okay, I'll have a light lunch and I can run in an hour. Did all that went out to run, you know, big storm in the middle of my run, , it's like, okay, well, I'm wet now. That's fine, . Um, which is still fine. There's a different, as you know, it's a, it's more of a closed in sensation when you're running in the rain, you know, you're trying to manage that and, and run through it. It's a different experience altogether. And yeah, so I think being open to, um, to those other sorts of, uh, stimuli that can inform your stuff and your thinking is a good thing. And of course, there's the discomfort. I mean, we're, we're describing moments that maybe we can think of as joyful, but running in the rain isn't always great. But when you, when you put yourself out there, even that experience of, as you describe moisture, I mean, even that can inform I think, the way that we live. Yeah, I think so. And, um, you know, when I paint, there's, there's moments when I'll be pushing around significant quantities of paint. You know, I might use a, a spackle blade and just kind of heat something up, andro it around for a while, and that's not unlike, you know, running through a muddy hillside. Um, I did a, uh, a tough mutter a few years back, and that was a blast and, uh, you know, interesting to, to kind of push yourself, uh, to some different sorts of limits. And I think painting does that as well. It pushes me to different visual limits, to, um, limits of my patients, of my, uh, stamina. I'm working on a, a large thing, uh, and yet when you're pushed to limits, then you, you achieve things that you didn't expect. And I think, yeah, that's, that's definitely, it's a great, uh, metaphor for that kind of, um, dialogue that I have with painting too. Yeah. Well, I've been thinking a lot lately about this idea of where we are all emerging from in, in the past few years, and how we've, by necessity protected ourselves, drawn back, worn masks, stayed home. Um, and even though the fact that C O V D has had an impact on our sense of smell, so it directly impacted some people's actual physical ability to sense something. And I, and it's almost the, the emerging back out into this world where all of a sudden we're all feeling like baby birds, like the, the light is too bright, the smells smell too much, the people are too loud. And I, I wonder if it isn't that mutual emergence that's causing us all to just feel, besides being tired, but also just, just trying to get used to actually interfacing with the world in a more normal way. Again, have you had that experience? Yeah, I think that's a, that's a great conclusion, uh, to draw or, or an observation, uh, perhaps to lead to conclusions, because, uh, yeah, I remember we were actually setting up a show for my mentor who had passed, and he had left me as paintings. And so we had put together this retrospective show of his work, and he's from Ohio and was out in the Chagrin Falls area of Ohio, and that was May 12th of that year. And we got the announcement when we were out there that something's happening, and so we drive back and things are shutting down as we're driving back. And then of course, as you know, we had the gradual, uh, sort of, you know, uh, implosion of everything and the discovering of these things and that, those things and, uh, the new limitations and how they went. And along the way, I remember, um, my wife and I both, uh, contracted Covid early, um, like, I think it was June of that year. And, you know, we'd been as careful as we could be. And of course the usual question was, well, how'd you get it? And I'm a little bit of a wise guy, and I said, I, I really love licking doorknobs. And so, you know, I went around and did that and I , I said, I don't know how I got it's a virus. Um, I could tell you that we were doing all the grocery shopping for my in-laws, and it's very likely that would be the place cuz you know, there's just so many factors. At any rate, it affected our sense of smell. Um, my wife's more acutely and, uh, she found an interesting way to cope with it. She decided as she was starting to recover, that she played tho those, uh, scents, those things that are like those essential oils, and she would pick out a scent that she recognized, like cinnamon, put it in there and retrain her nasal passages to get it. And so I just thought that was really a smart approach. Um, I'm a little more, um, you know, stubborn and just go ahead and plow through and get it done, uh, for me. And for her it was more, more between a cold and the flu. Um, in fact, the day that she tested positive, I decided I needed to go out for a five mile run. And I did that. And then I tested positive the next day, . I said, well, . Um, and, um, yeah, as far as the emerging idea, uh, I do think it's, it's really caused us to reflect and perhaps in some ways over reflect. You know, I don't think we're designed to be like this all the time. And when we are like that for a protracted amount of time, um, I think there's a lot of things that can gain purchase in our minds that maybe wouldn't normally. And, uh, we've certainly found that. And as you come out of that, um, there's this sense of, of goodness of, you know, relief. Like, wow, like we just got back from a trip to Amsterdam and it was just glorious and lovely and, and to be able to be out there and to be able to be on a plane for that long without having to wear a mask if you choose not to, um, you know, there were a lot of freedoms that are so easy to take for granted. And, um, so yeah, for me, during the lockdown, we did a lot of, uh, you know, inside stuff. We have a nice backyard garden. We spent tons of time out there, had more wine than we needed. Um, we, uh, spent a lot of time working on the house and projects. And it's just so interesting how your focus shifts. I found there was a lot more interest in art because I think people were looking at their bare walls and thinking about what could go there, where, you know, before life just runs at this frantic pace. Um, I would say one of the real benefits of, of the lockdown covid would be that it did cause people to have to slow down. Uh, it just necessitated that you had to be deliberate. You had to really make your choices and think about them. And, uh, I think it points out the sort of breakneck pace that we're often at and, um, hesitant to get back to that. You know, I, I'm a busy man. I mean, I, I get up quite early. I'm working hard most of the day, but I am quite willing to stop and spend those, those moments being more quiet. And I think the emergence is a great, a great, uh, thought there. I mean, I think a lot of my images sort of emerge, you know, they don't just get put down and then filled in. I don't make, uh, colored drawings, you know, they're, they just come out of what's going on with the pain. So, yeah. Dale, you're obviously joining us from another part of the country and I'm here in Maine. Um, what is your connection to Maine and to the Portland Art Gallery? So, um, when I was young, uh, I remember hearing about Maine and my grandparents had a, uh, uh, camp in the Adirondack, uh, mountains. And, uh, loved that sort of northern kind of environment. Um, there's just something about the landscape that I absolutely loved, and I remember hearing about Maine and I remember thinking, oh, that sounds like a great place. And we just didn't travel. We didn't have the funds to travel. I had not been out of the state until I was a senior in high school. Uh, so we finally got out of the state and the first thing we did was dad took us through, uh, the northeast, and we went from Vermont into Maine, and, you know, we dropped down. So that was my first exposure to Maine. And I remember thinking, oh, I, I need to get back there. So, uh, my, let's see, my first year at r i t the summertime was spent house painting, trying to make dollars to go back to school. And my best friend from high school, uh, who currently works for the State Department has for a long, long time, um, he was my partner in crime doing the house painting. So we decided we're gonna take a bicycle trip, and it was gonna go from Bennington, Vermont to a gun, quit Maine, and we're gonna work all summer to get ourselves ready for this trip. We're gonna ride our bikes around town to get ready. You know, , I mean the, the delusions you tell yourself when you're young thinking that's gonna be enough. Um, we did all that. And then, uh, the day came and we took our bikes apart because we reasoned that we didn't wanna spend all of our time riding out of familiar areas. We were gonna take our bikes apart, put 'em on a bus, and go to Bennington, Vermont, and then put 'em together and then get on the bikes and ride. So I had a, um, , a bike called a Vista with some very inexpensive pans on it. And I think, uh, my total weight of bike and equipment was about 70 pounds. It was way, way, way heavy. We were just, you know, novices. So ironically, we get out of our, um, place that the bus depot, we start to travel and big smiles on our faces, we're gonna head out. And this gentleman comes down on the other side of this big hill, all paired down on one of those, you know, really stripped down in, uh, economical bikes. And he had on a, uh, a banner that said, uh, Portland, Oregon to Portland, Maine. So he was making that bike trip, and he took one look at us and just sort of shook his head, . And I thought, oh, well. So we take off and big smiles, we go up and first thing we hit is something called Hogback Mountain. And we're just like, it seemed like miles and miles up this windy mountain. We were so exhausted. We camped out at the top and spent the next morning going down to Brattleboro, uh, down this steep hill worrying about being able to stop, you know, it was a little bit damp. And then we made our way to a gun quit. Um, the hard part was we only allowed ourselves three days to make that trip. And so the middle day, the middle, uh, day was going through, uh, New Hampshire and goodness, we put on a hundred miles and we were, it was miserable. It was like 50 in raining, you know, and, uh, gosh, that was hard. But we got to Maine and we saw the ocean and we just threw our bikes and we just ran into the surf . So then my first connection, uh, my wife and I did some after honeymoon, uh, camping up there, uh, near Harris Secret, and, um, just loved it. And, uh, I've been up there several times since. My younger son, Josh, is, uh, an OBO player. He was a conservatory level OBO player, and he used to study up there, um, near the Belgrade Lakes. So we made treks up there. There was a New England music camp, uh, welcome, you know, anytime to go to Maine, um, had been to Monhegan Island and done some painting there. So, uh, yeah, I've, I've had a significant connection with Maine, uh, which is, uh, it's always a delight and I love the climate. Uh, let's face the Philadelphia in the summer, forget it. Um, I'll get, I'll take Maine any day Having a child that is graduated now from a college in upstate New York, and having traveled there and, and also having seen her experience with the snows and the colds, it seems like at least you moved south to a place that maybe doesn't have quite as much snow and quite as much cold. So, but it's nice that you still have that connection to Maine because, um, you know, it is a pretty wonderful place. I Do see. So yeah, it is. And there's a, there's a kind of ruggedness that I, I really enjoy about it. You know, the coast is different, the coast, you know, the Jersey shore here, uh, for the most part, at least where we go, ocean city and stuff, I kind of view it as like a strip mall of sand. You know, it just doesn't have the, the topography that you have up in Maine. Uh, in Maine, you get those wonderful boulders and the different kinds of sand and these tidal pools. And, um, I do have a gallery that I show with in Cape Cod, and it's similar, um, you know, I'll spend just hours with m