From Construction to Artist: Maine Artist Allen Bunker Reflects on a Life Full of Unexpected Turns

Hello, I'm Dr. Lisa Lyle. And today you are listening to, or watching radio mane with me and with artist Alan bunker, Alan, it's really great to have a chance to actually sit down and talk with you, given that, uh, I think you and I have known each other for quite a few years, and, you know, sometimes the, the more in depth conversations are harder to have around the art gallery when you're doing a, an opening and that sort of thing. So thank you for coming on today. Well, thank you, Dr. Let, I really appreciate it. The opportunity to, uh, talk about art. Well, and I love talking about art because it's, uh, obviously it's kind of a it's counter to I do in my normal every day, my normal kind of practicing medicine world. And you have a similar, uh, backstory, you were in construction and you owned your own business and you did this for many, many years. So tell me a little bit about, uh, getting into art as a full time career. Well, construction is very stressful and, um, there's a lot of demands. There's a lot, you're juggling balls in the air all over the place. And, um, you know, after a while you feel that, and I was probably in my forties when I really started feeling it, it was like almost like two cumulative. It just built up and to the point where I was experiencing chest pains. And, but, you know, for no reason I'm healthy basically. And, um, I don't know how it happened, but I got ahold of some watercolor. And this painting to behind me is the very first painting that I ever did as a watercolor. I did it on Cape Cod and the thing that propelled me to go further and is that somebody liked it and that's, um, to me, that's what it's all about. Really. It's, it's, you know, it's probably immature, whatever, but when somebody tells you that they like your work, there's nothing better than that. And then when they buy, it that's even better, but somebody, uh, my wife's friend Kathy said, she said, wow, you did that. And I was like, yeah, I did that. And it just, uh, it was exciting to me. So that was in 1991 actually. And cause it says so on the painting. That's how I remember that. And um, so I just started painting more and more. And um, then whenever we went up with the Harbor or on Cape Cod and, um, or on vacation, I would bring my paints with me. I was still doing construction. I still am doing construction, but, um, this was a way to escape and just, I just kept developing it. And then I remember, um, probably 2004, I said to my wife, Priscilla, um, I wanna do this full-time and she was like, oh no, you know, cuz that's not good. We were in construction. We had a nice house and everything and, and uh, she just saw it all crumbling down, which is kind of what happened anyways. But, uh, uh, I, I just knew that I, I was done with construction. I just couldn't do the stress anymore. So we moved to Acton Maine and um, I had a great studio there and I didn't have any representation, but I was learning how to paint and, and developing that whole craft. Um, So then we moved to booth bay Harbor and our vacation home. We moved into our vacation home and then I said, well, I'm in booth bay Harbor. This and I had never been to booth bay Harbor in, um, July or August. We always went in September when the crowds were gone and stuff like that. And when we first moved there, there was a million people there, the sidewalks, there were like five deep on in, in July and August. I couldn't believe it. And I said, well, I can, I can do something here. I'm a business, man. I can do something here. So we opened, uh, the Allen David gallery and I was selling other people's work. Other artists' work, not my own. And then someone said to me, you should put your own art out. So I put a little piece out and a guy from New York, um, came and, and liked it and, and said he wanted to buy it and said, can you tell me a little about the artist? And I said, well, I'm the artist. And he's like, well, why didn't you tell me that? So, um, again, that was this, this coolest thing ever that somebody liked my painting enough to actually want to buy it. And, um, So then the year was, so this was 2008 and September of 2008 people, the, the cliff had just, people just walked off the cliff with their finances, you know, their, their 401ks and everything had cut in half just about. So it was very difficult to sell any yard, but we didn't, but that was just like, we thought, it's this can't be happening. All this system gonna continue. And a big store opened up in BPE Harbor and, um, you know, right on the corner of the footbridge and it was a great space. So I renovated the whole, um, building out of my own pocket. I didn't own the building, but I, but I did it. We had a really cool gallery, but it was 2009 in 2010. And we just, we just couldn't make enough money to pay the rent, the heat and everything that was involved with it. So, um, we had to close, yeah. After probably about 2014 or so it was just, uh, we just couldn't hang on anymore. And then, um, Portland gallery contacted me, our collector Maine at the time and what I like to be an artist in the gallery at the grand and bunk board. And sure it was perfect timing. I, I was kind of getting out of that, my own gallery and I needed representation. And, um, so, uh, there were about a dozen artists or so at that were the, uh, initial artists at the gallery and, um, Joan parent and, uh, bill Crosby. I, I, I don't know who else. I can't remember the other names, but they were cuz they're still, you know, here. But, um, so I don't know the long answer, I suppose. Well, sometimes I think it's really important to hear people, stories of, um, things not working out the way that they wanted to, because sometimes it's easy for each of us to believe that maybe we're the only ones who have gone through these really difficult times. And then, you know, when I, when I hear your story and UNC, certainly I had my own experience of 2008. Um, it's just a good reminder that, you know, you can, you can do everything right. And all of the possible things you can think of. And if you don't have the economy on your side and there's just bigger things going on, You know, there's an aftermath. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So do you think that, um, do you think there'll be almost a, a parallel for what's going on now with uh COVID as we're, hopefully coming, we keep all saying we're coming out of COVID so I'm, I'm hoping that that's actually true, but, but do you think we're gonna have somebody in, you know, 20 years looking back and say, well, this is what happened, happened to me in, you know, 20, 20, Well, I heard something yesterday about kids wearing the mask that are developing their speech patterns by seeing their Stu their teachers lips and things like that. And they've been lacking there for two years. That's probably gonna come back years from now. Just that's just one example of that could come back. Think little things that you don't think about like that as far as the economy, I, I don't know. I, I was just telling Kevin, I'm trying to buy a new truck and there's not available. You can't find them. So, um, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not, I'm not an economist at all, all, so I don't know what the answer to that is, But you are a small business owner and you are a, I would call you a serial entrepreneur and you've undertaken a lot of risk in your life and you've seen kind of downturns and successes. So I think that's the question that I'm asking you really is, is do you think people are going to be able to find ways to make this arguably a downturn in our world into something, um, that we can learn I'm from? Yes, definitely. But more specifically entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs. They, I, I've never, since high school worked for anybody else, I just, it's not me. I'm not gonna do it. So even if it means, uh, sitting at home for, you know, which is the word thing in the world, but, um, you know, entrepreneurs will find a way and, um, people, some people aren't entrepreneurs and they're gonna work for somebody else and they're gonna find a way too, they're gonna find a job or whatever, whatever they have to do. Um, I don't know that's right enough, but that's kind of how I see it. Um, I kind of, um, adjusted my entrepreneurial life to fit different economies and things like that. In other words, when things are going great and you have a lot of money and a lot of, uh, work, I would hire more people, but now I've cut it down to basically just my brother, myself and my cousin enough that we, you know, we're all older. We don't wanna work eight hours, five days a week. We're just, you know, we just don't do that anymore. So it, it works. Um, so we've adjusted to what we have to do, and that gives me more time to paint stuff to, which is good. You know, you need that too. So I'm very happy with my life right now. Um, I, I don't have a lot of stress and not that, not that having stress is like the worst thing in the world, but if, if you can avoid it, it, it has a value. It definitely has a value to, to, uh, avoids not avoid, but minimize stress if it's too much, I think you have a, he, you have enough cuz you, otherwise you won't get out of bed, but if you, uh, have too much, it's just not good. That's my experience. Yeah. I, I think, I think what you're describing is, um, really true. I mean, I think if you, if there's not enough of something to kind of push up against and feel challenged by then that stunts your growth. And on the other hand, if you're pushing up against something, that's just so heavy that you, you never feel any forward motion, then that's extremely, um, stunting and disheartening as well. So moving back to your art, um, it sounds like you've always kind of taken the situation, whatever situation you're in and you've figured out a way to make it work. And, and my understanding is that that's similar with the way that you've approached your art is you've, you've figured out what you needed to know in, to be an artist and you've taught yourself, um, really the, the craft. Yeah. And, um, yeah, that's, that's true. And, you know, experience is, is a, a big thing too, because I know now what I don't want to do, I don't always know how to do what I want do, but I know what I want to do. And I, and I know what I don't want to do. So that's a big part right there, cuz I think as you're developing as an artist, you, um, I don't know if it's, if you're seeing other work, I, I tend to stay away from that. I tend to not try to emulate other artists. I cuz I it's, I feel like it's all inside of me and um, I need to find out what that is rather than seeing something and trying to say, oh, I want to do that. A, um, I know, I feel like I'm kind of off track here, but I dunno if that answers your question. Well, I think you raise a really important point when you talk about finding something inside of yourself and it's also an incredibly difficult thing to do. I mean, I, I arguably it's easier to listen to what other people are telling you or to see what other people are showing you and, and model, um, the work that you're doing after theirs, which, which certainly as a place, but understanding your own self and understanding where you're coming from and figuring things out, um, kind of the idea of finding your voice. I think that that's something that many people struggle with. So it, you know, either way you're gonna be challenged either to, you're challenging yourself to create exact copy copies of someone else's pieces or you're challenging yourself to kind of dig deep. Wouldn't you say? Yes. Yes. Except for, you know, uh, I, I, I, I don't like it when artists just copy, whether it's the landscape that's in front of them or I don't know about portraits, cuz you're trying to actually make it a likeness of the person. But landscapes, for example, if, if it's J we used to have, I used to paint plain air in booth Harbor with the plain air painters of vein. And um, we used to have this joke where people would say, uh, like, uh, spectators would come by, that'd drive by, oh, comment, stuff like that. And we used to have this joke that if you, if you wanted it to look exactly like what you're seeing, just take a picture, you know, that you don't need a painting for that. Just take a picture, take a photograph. It's gonna be better than anything you can do anyway. So, so there's a point where it's, it becomes art. It's not just a copy. And I think that artists need to get to that point. They need to discover what it is gonna make this art and not just a copy, no matter what it is, even if it's a, a fruit bowl, it, it shouldn't just be a copy. It should be art. There should be more to it that that makes it art, not just a photograph. That's just my opinion. I do feel obviously kind of strong about that though. I mean, that makes sense. I mean, if everybody's just copying something that somebody else is done, then really it's just ongoing, you know, perpetual iterations of the same. So then there's, it really doesn't show a lot of creativity. I think I was just more referring to the idea of maybe the early learning process where you use, um, you know, models as a way to, to kind of cement technique or, um, you know, kind of think about things like perspective, um, as a kind of a, a launching point, which I think that, that's what I hear often when people are talking to me about this. Yes. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely a learning curve. That's definitely, um, you know, techniques and tool rules and things like that. But, um, I'm more speaking like philosophically as an artist or a developed artist, this is what you need to get to, in my opinion, in my opinion, it is worth, you know, whatever. Well, I think I, I agree with you and I, and I've seen this be true really, even in my field, you know, that when I first started learning medicine, I was learning the language of medicine and then I kind of began learning the, the craft of medicine and then, you know, it's kind of successive layers, so that it's kind of the art of communication. It's the art of translating the information back to the patient. It's the art of working with the team. So I, I mean, I think there are, there are parallels probably across the board and people who really want to get proficient in things that they're doing in their lives. Right. Do you think that more successful people are more focused on one particular thing? Like a surgeon would, would want to be a really good at cutting, you know, operating up people better than communicating, like you think of what was that guy house or, you know, that show that he was the doctor. He was like a horrible person, but he was a great doctor. So I, I don't know. Is that better or worse? I don't know. I don't know. I hear what you're saying though. This is a lot involved with it. I kind of feel like as an artist, I wish that it was just art. I wish that people would just look at my art instead of me and you know, the things that I'm, that I'm not good at or whatever, but it doesn't seem to be the way. And it's probably true about anything in life. Yes. There's, there's kind of the thing. And then there's all the stuff around the thing, you know, so yeah, there's the art itself, but then there's actually connecting with people who want to buy your art. There's, you know, going to gallery and doing things like this with me, which probably are a little bit outside your comfort zone. Right, right. Yeah. So talking about what's in your comfort zone. Tell me about this piece. That's actually behind me in the studio right now. Yes. That's called the name of the piece has gone to heaven. That's what, uh, Kevin told me earlier cause he looked on the back cause I, I have a lot of pieces. I can't always remember. I know the name gone to heaven. I can tell you how I got the name gone to heaven too. I was telling a friend of mine, uh, Carol, that she asked, how do you come up with your names for your paintings? And I said, well, I listen to music all the time when I'm painting, I have to have music on. It's almost like it makes my hand work. And that the name of that painting is from the Pixies. And the name of the, uh, song was this monkeys gone to heaven. Do you remember that song? No, it's a great song. And I always thought it had to do with medical experiments, like monkey, you know, was a test monkey, which is horrible, but that's what I always, so anyways, I catch on that little bit of the name, gone to heaven. That's a cool name for a painting. So that's how I named that painting. Um, as far as the, uh, the painting itself, if you, that painting is right there in the experimental mode, what am I, um, I'm experimenting with technique and, um, I, I can't see the whole painting. I don't know if your audience can or not, but uh, this dripping in the clouds and things like that. And you know, that a lot of my work is trying different, uh, ideas and different ways of applying the paint. Um, I was telling somebody at the opening last night, they were, there was, uh, Cooper, dragon. It was saying, um, what do you use a, a knife or a brush? And I get that a lot. Cuz the thing is I use both and I've saying to him sometimes I'll take a piece of, um, cellophane or plastic wrap from the gallery, from the canvas when I open it and I'll just crinkle it up and uh, use that as a brush. So whatever, whatever, um, the tools are, not that important, I've feel that way in construction too, a tool is just something that will get the job done. Some people are very particular about their tools like this is, this is the right tool for the right job. I've never been like that. Whatever works, that's just my opinion about it. But um, so I use, I use whatever is at hand to actually create the paintings as long as I can get enough interest in, um, you know, variation and texture and things like that. Do you have a sense in to people who like your art and who, um, buy your art? And I know that you've been really very successful at, um, having developed a following. Do you have a sense for what it is that people find attractive about your art? What is it that's, that's drawing them to the work that you do? I used to, I don't on so much anymore. I used to, I used to think it was the simplicity. I mean, well, when I had my own gallery, I would interact with the artists much more. I mean the, the buyers much more than I do now. So I used to, you know, I could kind of tell what they were buying, but that's another, that's a like mystery to me cuz the paintings that I feel are the best paintings I ever did. How can this even last a day in the gallery, those are the ones, you know, they don't always sell and I get 'em back and the, and then some will sell that. I don't understand, you know, I didn't think it was that good of a painting, but it was to different, which is what I'm kind of going for. So, um, it, I, I, I guess I don't know really what exactly people see in my work, um, except for maybe what I see in it. And you know, that there is that, that, um, I, I feel like if someone buys my painting, they they're getting me, they understand what I was trying to do and, and they appreciate it and they connect with it and that's all good. So I don't know that answers your question. Well, I think it, it does and I, and it's, it's interesting because I will talk to some artists and they will have a sense of what sells and they'll, they'll paint to what sells. And then I talk to someone like you who says, well, I'm not really sure. So if you're not really sure, then it means you don't have to paint to what sells you, you paint. And then that gives other people the opportunity to respond. And it, it does. Um, I mean it's a little bit of a leap of faith. I would imagine that you're engaging in as you're creating the work that you're doing. Yeah. It, yes, it is it, but I'm not trying well, I shouldn't say that because there's always the pressure to sell. There's always the pressure to please somebody else let's say, but better. I'm more true to myself and better if I, if I'm not thinking that way at all. And I'm just trying to create the best piece that I can. And that's more true. I do that more, you know, obviously more than trying to, uh, paint to the crowd or to the, to the buyer. But, um, yeah, it, it it's so much experiment with me cuz um, I get bored. Um, I, you know, I, I, I don't know how to describe it, but I have to, I paint very quickly and I have to get, uh, the I idea or the, uh, the feeling that I'm trying to get. It has to come quickly. It has to be there or it's never gonna be there. You know? So I don't know. Well, it's, it's interesting because you're, you've had the opportunity to understand what you need to do in order to be a, a good business person. I mean, you you've, and self-employed your whole life. So you know that you need to kind of keep the, the lights on and pay the bills and you know, you have to keep those things into consideration, but then you're also, uh, aware as an artist of that, that counterbalance, that, knowing that, doing the work that you do, it seems to contribute to a more balanced for you. It seems like doing too much on the O on the one side caused a lot of stress for you. So this doing it this way has, has brought you back into a sense of, um, well, as I said, balance, Yeah. Um, yeah, I think, I think that's true. I, uh, friend, an artist friend of mine years ago said when we owned the gallery, um, and they had to get their own gallery and I was struggling with something, whether I should do this particular thing or not, I forget what it was now, but she said just do it because every everyone else is doing the same thing. Like same, like everyone, people come into the gallery and they've, they've already seen a lot of stuff. So do something different if, if so, if, and it's the same with paint it's same with the, the painting. If it's, if it's different, it's probably gonna be good because no one else has seen it. You know? W which is actually one of the things I really like about painting is that each piece is unique. There's no two pieces that are the same. And to me, that's, I get a kick out of that. It's not just that. I mean, and actually, that's kind of funny to say that because a lot of my paintings look to me, they look exactly the same, but I know that the, or not Alan, did you know when you were growing up that you had an interest in art? Well, I've been drawing every day in my life. I draw, you know, I always have a graph. It's always graph paper type stuff though. It's not like landscapes and things like that. Isn't that funny. But, um, but all day, every day I'm drawing, you know, every time I sit in my chair or whatever I'm drawing and I've did that since I was a kid too. And, um, art is in my family, my two aunts were wonderful artists, Dotty may and Laurel bunker were fabulous artists. And they're both gone now, but, um, they were big inspirations to me and I other, other things too, other artists too, that I saw. And I'm like, wow, if I could do that. And, and, um, I kind of forgot your questions. Well, I think you've answered it. You talked about, um, even when you were younger, just always having, I guess, a, a graph paper in front of you and, and be working on drawings and yeah. I'm assuming that this lent itself well to the work that you do in construction, then Yes. Yeah. That's, that's true. I'm always designing and you know, people say, well, how is, is construction and art related? How are they, how are they related? And to me, they're exactly related because when I'm even designing a kitchen or a layout for a flu, a plan or bookcases or any, anything that has to be designed is, is a lot of, um, decisions to make. And with a painting, it's the same way. There's decisions up to decisions. They have to be done quickly with a, for me anyway, you know, but there's, they're all decisions like, do I, do I do this? What do I do here? What do here? And that's the same thing with construction, I think anyway, um, even if, even if I don't do the design work, I still have to build the thing that someone else is designed. And it's all decisions. It's all small little decisions. And sometimes, um, you know, with the same with the painting, they're, they have to be made, uh, quickly and they have to be sometimes made in advance. And then sometimes not a lot of times, same with the painting and in construction. A lot of times the decisions are made as it's happening. And that's not always a bad thing, but sometimes it is a bad thing they should be made beforehand. So it's, it's this balance between planning and spontaneity that, um, make them both work, whether it's construction or, or painting. And, and in your family, do you, were your parents, uh, business people? I mean, did you, when, you know, you have this very specific approach to having lived your life, uh, professionally and personally, did this come from somewhere so that you felt like, oh, I can do this. I can, I can be the one who makes the decisions. Yeah. I have, um, I have four uncles and three on, on my mother's side and three of them are masons and two of them were self-employed masons. And I looked at when I was like a teenager, I looked at their lives and I said, Hmm, the ones that are self-employed, they seem to have bigger houses and newer trucks and things like that. So that was kind of, that kind of made it easy for me to say, oh, that's what I want to do. You know, I want to have the bigger truck in the newer house. So, um, so that was like easy, but no, my parents were not, um, business minded per se. And actually my father worked for me for 15 years when he, he basically got laid off, he was a factory job, his whole life, and he got laid off and he worked for me for many years. So, which was great because I worked my dad every day for probably the last, you know, 15 years of his life. And that was, you know, I didn't realize it at the time, but that was really special. And I've worked with my brothers. Two of my brothers worked for me for many years and one of 'em still does. And, um, I, you wouldn't get that. You don't get that. Right. But that's been great. And I really do appreciate that. And so it, it sounds like one of the things you really value about the life that you've created for yourself is that, that you have created it, that you've made a series of very conscious decisions, whether it's related to your business or where you're living with Priscilla, or, you know, employing or family, or taking on art. And, and this is self-directed, this is something that you have done for you. Well, yes, that's probably true. Yes. You make decisions. I feel like, uh, you know, man makes his plans, but the Lord directs his paths. That's my kind of philosophy. I, yes. Make decisions. Yes. Go. Yes. Do, but you don't have any real control over that. That's not really your job. It's not your job to, uh, be perfectly safe and secure and everything like that. I, I just don't think that is your job is to, is to go and do and, and, and make decisions and, you know, not agonize over it just, you know, that's another thing that pet peeve of my own people kind of, uh, should I have done this? Should I have done that? Just do it. Someone said, uh, how do I know that it was God's will that I married my wife and the guy said, well, she said, yes. You know, so I don't know. Well, I really appreciated the opportunity to talk with you today. And I think, uh, you know, my, my, my father is also in medicine. We haven't really worked together closely, but, you know, I did some of my initial training with him in family medicine. And I absolutely agree with you. There's, there's really nothing more special than that. And I've always also valued that time with him. So it's, uh, the, there are things that I can relate to. And what you're saying, even though what you do and what I do on the face are very different. So I appreciate your time. And I appreciate Opportunity Dr. Lisa, I really do. And, um, I hope that I wasn't too boring for you. Um, I, I, I, I enjoyed our conversation and I do wanna point out for anybody who is a regular listener, um, th this is not an easy thing for people to do. I mean, this is, I, I suspect you have not done that many recordings and probably most of them before the art gallery. So for you, this is, uh, this is really something that you have done at request, and we really appreciate it because I think getting the chance to know you this way is, is special. So, so thank you for your willingness to kind of do things that are a little bit uncomfortable with us today. Well, thank you. And thank Kevin for, uh, persisting. I encourage you to go to the Portland art gallery and see some of his work. It is just stunning in person. Um, it's equally wonderful to look at on the website, and, uh, there are many examples of his work there, Alan, thank you for being with me today. Thank you, Dr. Lisa. I appreciate it.