Home Is Where The Heart Is: An Interview with Acclaimed Vermont Artist, Sage Tucker-Ketcham

I have with me artist, Sage Tucker Ketchum, who is represented by the Portland art gallery. Thanks for coming in today. Thanks for Having me. So you and I have an interesting connection. It's uh, being Vermont. Yes. Um, I was born there. I went to medical school there, obviously. This is a big part of your life. Yeah. What's your connection to Maine? I Came to Maine on a vacation with, um, an ex-boyfriend of mine and we were driving through and I wanted to go to art school and I saw in the back of a car, a main college of art bumper sticker, and I was like, great, you know, sold. And, uh, I loved Portland. So I moved here in 2000 for my undergrad and then was here for three years living. And now I come here all the time. So That's interesting. Did you look at it as kind of a sign like, oh, there's a bumper sticker. I should, I should follow that car. Yeah. It was one there's like a Misty morning and the sun was hitting the bricks and my, we were in the car and driving and this bumper sticker and I was looking for like a sign, cause I didn't really wanna go to a big, big city and Portland's very much like Burlington, but a little bit bigger and a little more different. So I was like, perfect. So I applied, I got in and I had never been to the college. So the first day of class, I was like, this is great. I was really happy. Yeah. It's a good thing. I worked out. Yeah. That's, that's kind of a leap of faith that you just invested in There. Yeah. But it was beautiful and I knew it was close enough to home. So if it didn't work out, I could always go back. Yeah. Yeah. I really enjoy your work. Thank you. Tell me about the, this piece behind us here. Um, this piece is brand new and I've been doing houses for about five years and so they can be really simple or they can have a lot. And so this one is sort of the idea of like changing season, but not sure if it's the beginning of a season or the end of a season. So in Vermont you'll see like tulips, but like there's snow on them. So it has like the different times of the year. So I like the idea of the leaves, not there, but there's still life forming. So is it the spring? Is it the winter? Um, and then the houses kind of tucked into the environment and the landscape as objects, sort of communicating with each other within this luscious flowery environment. It, it's interesting. You're talking about this, uh, this transitional time, because I think a lot of us do think of, okay, there's winter then their spring, then their summer then there's fall. But it's really never like that. It's yeah, it's always so gradual. But I think that a lot of times when you look at art, there is one specific type of, um, time of the year people are trying to have come across. What is it about the transition that is so intriguing to you? Um, So it's funny. I'm so I hate fall because as an artist, the color stressed me out, I just had this conversation with somebody the other day fall is so vibrant in Vermont and like the oranges and the reds, it's such a, you know, the time of the year, right. You know, it's fall November because of the leaves have now turned gray or dead or gone. It could be may. So I love the idea of like, not knowing exact thing when it is, but knowing there's something coming that, you know what it, you know, what it is. Um, so spring, you know, summer's coming, but you also know in winter or in November, winter's coming, but you can remember spring cuz you know, spring's gonna come after winter. So that transitional time really like In traditional, uh, Chinese medicine, there's this idea of yin within young and young, within yin. So that if the, if it's high season in summer, it's very young, it's very outward. It's very, you know, it's the heat and the sun and the winter, it's very yin, but then there's all the things in between. So there's always something that's rising and something that's falling. So that's that, that's what comes up for me is, is this idea that we're never, most of us are never really fully in one place or another. Yeah. Yeah. And I also, I like to travel a lot, especially around new England. So, um, you like right now here in Maine, it's a little bit behind Vermont. You got your first snow today, right? Like, or is it your first snow? I Think it was maybe the other day, but yes, not that long ago. Yeah. Right. And you guys have probably had snow for a little while. Yeah. But you can get in a car and go three hours and still have a change. And so, but, and how, I just really like traveling around, but we all have the same awesome of the same experiences. So whether you're in, in Maine or Vermont, you're still having the same changes, just slightly different. There's also something about kind of the light in the windows in these, um, in the structures that you've put here. Like, you know, somebody's, even though it doesn't exactly go along with the, the fall spring, you're not really sure what the season is, but there it's winter time, there's a light in the windows. There might be somebody sitting in that, you know, just waiting for the, for the next thing to happen. Um, that's just what I get out of it. I don't know. Is there an intentionality to making some of the windows look as if there could be a, you know, a lit wood stove behind them or a candle? Yeah, Absolutely. Um, also times a day, right? Dusk or Dawn, same sort of experience. It can be mourning, but people have their lights on, it can be morning and there's the moon still up. So I've been kind of fascinated with that idea. So the lights could be night or day or morning, so the beginning or the end. And so I like the lights giving the hint that it's not midday. So there's, it's, you're either beginning or you're ending. How would you describe your style? Um, I think it's kind of, it's evolving. Right. But definitely like graphic. Um, I don't, I struggle with that one because I definitely don't know. I think I definitely graphic regional American. Like I definitely enjoy looking at a lot of art pop art was huge. Um, and then self-expression huge for me for a long time. Um, so I think that's coming in a little bit with more of the like flowery work. Um, if they're, they, some of my work is kind of poppy or very like simplified Des more design. But then if I look at artists really the 1950s are, they're kind of designed to, you know, it's that kind of playing around with how much can you show of your process while keeping your surface is like art, like going like, uh, worm hole, but I want a good surface and I don't want my brushstrokes to like take away from the object. So I'm, but then I look at this, I'm like, I can see all these brushstrokes, but it's okay because the texture of a flower is gonna have more of a texture to it. So, but a house is flat, so I'm like, that's a brushstroke on that. It's okay. Um, so I very aware of my brushstroke. So I think that that's what I can, as an artist kind of always get better. Right. It's my process. Like how do I make my process more and more concrete so that I'm a better painter. It actually makes me kind of happy that you're saying, well, I'm not sure if I can completely describe my style. It's evolving. Yeah. Because I, I, I mean, the reason I ask is because I learn a lot from people that I talk to and when somebody says, oh, I'm, um, representational that I look back at the art, somebody who's not treated an art and I go, oh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah. And so I use it as a way to kind of educate it myself, but it's also interesting to know that, you know, it, isn't something that one day you wake up and you say, oh, I'm a realist. I'm, I'm an expressionist. So the idea that you're kind of continually moving in a direction as your own yeah. Process, your own style evolves. And I, I spend a lot of time alone in my studio and I have like an inside joke. Like, look, if you do it long enough, you're gonna do everything. So if you paint your whole lifespan, at some point, you're gonna paint a house. Some point you're probably gonna paint a cat at some point, you're gonna paint, you know, yourself in the mirror crying. So your whole, you know, projective as an artist is gonna probably hit every genre cuz you're searching. Um, and then sometimes you spend like I've been doing houses for five years, which is the longest I've kind of stayed regimented and they've become more simplified and simplified because they're objects. Um, so they serve kind of this purpose. What is it about houses that has kind of kept you interested for five years? Uh, well it's funny. Um, my husband's in real estate, so , we, I, uh, I'm around houses a lot and um, I moved to round a lot as a child. So that idea and I've actually, we just celebrated our 10 anniversary in our current house, which is crazy that I've lived somewhere that long. So home is like super, just, it's very prevalent in my life right now. I have a kid I'm home, my studio's at home. Um, and painting people. There's so much of behind that. So that house has sort of allowed me to play around in the idea. They might be people, but their houses they're where people will be. So, um, I can be a little more loose with how I do them. They don't have to depict an actual thing. They can be more abstracted. Tell me about this, moving around a lot. What, what was that phase in Your life like? Uh, I was, uh, born and my mom was a single mom. So we moved every six months until I was about Hm. Probably. I don't even know eight and then I started school and then she got, uh, her career kind of took off. And so we ended up moving then for uh, jobs. And so by the time I was in high school, I'd move like 20 something times. And so I was like, I wanna, I wanna stay still. And um, my mom promised me we wouldn't move. So in high school I got to stay in one place for four years. And then my husband's never not lived in Vermont. So I like, you gotta get out of Vermont. Like we're, I'm trying to get him to move out of Vermont, but he, um, has lived in the same 10 mile radius. So it cracks me up cuz I'm on the opposite spectrum. Um, so moving around was actually very, very good for me cuz it gave me so many experiences and opened my eyes to stuff that if you grow up in an area like Vermont, you don't get. So I definitely, I get to live in England. I lived in Toronto, I lived in like the Washington DC area. I've lived like all over. So what are some of the things I'm ready to move? right. 10 years. I know that's a long time to be in one place for you. Yeah. Yeah. What are some of the things that you learned from each of these individual places really About people and like food people? Um, cultures was huge in, I mean in England I went to an international girl school. So I met, you know, people from all over the world and it like opened me up all of a sudden my school, I had eight Americans in it, so it just shrunk America down to me. So the world became what I was learning about, um, family culture, like how people relate to each other. Um, art it, I got to see a ton of art growing up. Um, I got to go to Italy twice by the time I was 13. So, you know, I got to see stuff that a lot of kids, my friends back in Vermont weren't experiencing at that point. It's interesting. It has been interesting for me to see we've had, um, increase, increased access to really people, cultures around the world. We've become kind of a more global community. And at the same time that's created some anxiety and uncertainty for, for people who maybe aren't used to a global approach. Do you think there's a way that one can kind of maintain their, um, identity focus on a place like Vermont? Like your husband? Yeah. But simultaneously also be aware of other things outside of them and kind of create a, a comfort with both. Yeah. I travel. I mean, I think the best, you know, it's so funny. It's like, you know, so like, uh, you haven't had like a, you know, gelato, unless you go to Italy, it's kind of, you, you can get really good gelato here, but that's, I know it's like a basic thing, but food is a great way to enter cultures. Um, so, um, if you travel that really is gonna be your, like your bang for your buck. And then you can actually, I think say from my experience rather than being like, well, I read this thing in a book or, you know, or I saw something. So my husband's really interesting cuz he has had the opportunity to travel a ton and I think that's what can keep him staying in Vermont for so long. Um, but I think that's really your best way to understand from my experience. Um, so my son we're like, okay, we gotta make sure we travel to make sure he sees the world. Um, cuz Vermont and Maine are wonderful. They're utopias, but utopias, you know, it's not really the world we live in. So you gotta kind of experience the world in my opinion. No I I'm in agreement with you. I mean I, with, with my children, it's been kind of the same way. I mean, we've been very main focused and it's wonderful for them. We, everybody grew up in this town, they graduated from this high school, but my son went to Guatemala for a year and worked with an organization that, um, educated children outside the Guatemala city dump. And I think he learned so much from that. You know, it's so much about the contrast and the comparisons and the similarities and I think to have both is really, um, well, it's almost invaluable really. Yeah. And it's been really hard, um, you know, to we're we're like trying to plan trips right now cuz he's at the age now I'm not as worried about him running into the road when he was younger. Um, my fam my husband's family's from England, um, we kind of wanna go at least to that part of Europe first. Um, but we're like, we're kind of like trying to plan our trip. Yeah. COVID, O's been really tough for that. Yes. , it's hard to make travel plans. Yeah. So, but that's what for me, being able to, at least to me, if you're in your six hours in a car is so manageable. So I go to New York city a lot, um, cuz it's six hours away from Vermont that it's like the world. I say, I brought my son there in September and I was like, this is like a crash course in the world. And he's, you know, he's in times square, he's like, oh, but I'm like, okay, just, this is the world in a very quick amount of time, but it gives you something to relate to. How has your son done with all of these interesting transitions that we've all been working through over the last two years? He's been great. So, um, I mean, you know, he's had his, he's an only child that was the hardest thing. Um, but he, we were really lucky. He got to go to school most of the time. So he's been, you know, for him, he doesn't know different. Right. So I think for younger kids they're like, oh, when you're seven, the world shuts down. Like, I don't know. Maybe like he, he was great. He actually did really well with it and we took the time to be home. And I moved my studio at home. My husband worked from home, so we got to be together her. So that was really important. When did you first know that you were interested in pursuing art? Um, I always cry at this one for some reason. Uh, but uh, when I like when I was like five, um, so I was lucky enough, um, to be brought up with a lot of art people and have people in my life that were really into art. My mom was a musician and artist. Um, and so to me that was just like part of the, you know, you eat, you sleep, you do art. That was just part of the, what you do. And as I got older, I realized not everyone does that. Um, so I wanted to always have art, be my, my thing and I really got really involved in, in high school. And that was sort of when I was like, this is, this is my number one. So five is a very young age to, to know that that's the way that you want the rest of your life to look. Do you have the sense that that is a normal experience for artists? I actually, I've heard a lot of people say that like it's really that age, cuz you're trying to find yourself. Right. Then you start school, which is like a pretty, like, you're really good at math or you're not. So, um, you can get better. Um, so it gave me a real sense of purpose and it gave me like a clear, like I was new in school. Okay. I might not do great here, but I have art. So I'll, I'll go to art class and then I'll make something my teacher will say, that's really nice. And I'll say, thank you. Um, so I heard a lot of people do have the same kind of experience at a younger age, Puts a lot of pressure on us as parents. Doesn't it like I don't want my husband right now was like, so stressed out this morning. He's like, I signed him up for cuz we wanna make sure we're giving him the tools. Right. Um, and anytime he shows an interest in something football, which is I'm like, where did he get this from? Um, we wanna listen, but we also wanna not like when I was growing up and you were an art school, they said you have to pick one cuz multi multidisciplinary art wasn't even a thing like that was actually kind of shunned upon now. It's like, no, you wanna sculpt and paint and you know, that's wonderful. So finding the balance interest versus spastic thickness, you know, I'm trying to like find like some direction. Yeah. I mean, my kids are all older now, but I know that, you know, one of my children was very good in math. So for a while was like, oh, is that child gonna be a mathematician or a scientist? Um, another one was a very proficient swimmer and then swam through college, but then was done. I think for me sports is hard that way. Yes. Well, yeah, there's definitely kind of a shelf life too being a, um, I, not that many people go on to the Olympics for example. So yeah, but I think it is interesting for me because I, similar to you, you wanna give them the tools, the experience, the exposure. I also never wanna pigeonhole them into something that they feel constrained by right. As they move forward in their lives. And that I feel like that's an interesting kind of co-evolution parent child, um, relationship. Did you have that with your mother? Uh, she was always super supportive of me doing art. So, um, and every, oh my, we laugh about this all the time. She was like how many things? When I was in high school, I was like, I wanna be a snowboarder. So she bought me all the equipment and I lasted like, you know, two weeks I'm gonna be a photographer. So she bought me the whole camera set up. I wanna play the guitar. I have like a really nice guitar and you know, she was always really supportive, but the art was always that kind of thing. So when I, I was in high school, I had this amazing basement bedroom, which I don't know if I'd give my son a basement bedroom. Um, but it's great basement bedroom. And I was like, I wanna be in a giant mural. My mom was like, go for it. So I painted this massive mural of me and my friends on these like rainbows and uh, moons and stars and they're all falling. It was very high schooly and my mom, I move out of the house and I go to college and she calls me up really mad. I'm like, what? She's like, what, what did you, what paint did you use to do that mural? Cuz she's trying to sell her house. And I said, I don't know, Tera. And if you're an artist, you know, you don't use Tera on a wall because they couldn't paint over it. So they had to wash the walls. It ended up being this whole thing. But I remember being like, you know, but she was so supportive of me painting this mural. I was like, you know, thank you. So I think sometimes it costs her, um, to believe in my stuff, but um, literally yeah, like literally financially a lot. Um, but uh, definitely I gotten to be in college of art. She was super psych and um, yeah, she's been very supportive. Uh, I mean all I, all I can picture is, um, when my twin sisters were younger, they got into my mother's lipsticks and they like scribbled all over the wall and whatever it was in the lipsticks never, ever came off. Right. So you just did like an, an enormous high school version of that for your mother to kind of, um, happen across when she wanted to move into the next phase of her Life. So, so don't use Tera on the walls. Okay. or, or lipstick really? You just have to be. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's that's that is classic. I mean, I love the fact that she is so open, but there is kind of on the other side sometimes, uh, yes. A potential negative impact. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. What has it been like to work with a main based gallery? I know you have this very strong connection prior to your Vermont connect or kind of intertwined. Um, but you know, you're, you're in Vermont. Yeah. What, what's That like? It's awesome because I have an excuse to go to Maine all the time. Um, I'm like, oh, I, I gotta go to Maine. Um, Maine's like the gallery's been amazing and Sue super supportive and busy. Um, so Portland is funny. It's definitely a bigger city than Burlington and it has a, it seems like, cuz I like, I'm kind of obsessed with it, but it's like, seems like the tourists coming through this area are D for, even though the same, it there's something in Maine happening that isn't necessarily Vermont is always, we are always 10 years behind is a big joke in Vermont, um, like fashion and everything. So I don't know if it's that or, but this seems to be a much more city hum here growth is I noticed too. So to be in Portland, for me as an artist is a great step cuz eventually I wanna be, you know, super famous. Right? So this is a great step for me as far as a scale of a size of a place. Um, and then my own personal connection here allows me then to come back and when I'm here on family, a vacation, it's great. I'll be like, oh I should shoot up to Portland. Um, cuz we go to a gun, quit a bunch. So it's great. You know, it's a reason to see my friends from college or to walk around or to bring my family here. Um, which is really fun. So it's a second home for sure. And um, it just keeps that keeps that relationship of a part of myself 20 years ago now is still alive. Kind of makes it all still exists, which is great. Yeah. It's interesting because having also lived in Burlington and going back now because we have family who lives there and there there's more of kind of a, a, almost a, you go there and you stay there and then you go back to where you came from. Whereas Portland, there's almost a little bit of a way station. There's a little bit of a transient, you know, it is means largest city, but it it's kind of it's here and then you have a Gunt down below, you have bath up above. So there's, there's always a sense of coming and going and with the port and you know, just it, there does seem to be more, less, little bit less stasis. Yeah. There's just it. I, you know, there's like more restaurants, there's more things. And I always always thought when I was here at Mecca, I think a lot of it has to do with that. There's an art school here because you have people graduate who are interested, not just in art, but really good food or design or like you like the interiors of a lot of these places. You feel the, um, the connection with arts, there's more just even your Christmas late display, you were driving through the Christmas late display. It just feels more hum, more alive and more artistically connected. But I think that is a lot to do with them there being an art school here. So you have the alum, you have the trickle effect, right? So like the alumni come stay, live in the community, open businesses over time. Um, so even though it's a small college, um, it's still, I think is linking a lot to the community after, after the fact. Yeah. I think that's true. And I'm old enough to remember when it was the Portland school of art. Yeah. So it was very local to, it was a school. They called themselves school, even though it was clearly, it was a college. Um, and then the fact that they laid a, uh, laid a greater claim. So now we're gonna be the main college of art. And then they, their campus even really changed. You know, they took over the old porches building and they, you know, created a really large modern space. And I mean, it really feels like they've invested in the community and not just the main community, but a larger community. And what I also find awesome about this area is it's so close to Boston. So you have that like city link, Burlington is just so much north that even that makes it just it's just far. So, so I think that that connection is makes it, you probably get a lot more people up from Boston and Yeah. And the museum of art in Portland is also really kind of considering the size of our city and the size of our state. Yeah. Really has a lot of, um, very big names in the art field. But Maine is kind of, I mean, and I don't know that much about Vermont art, so I can't, I, is there the same kind of art legacy and creative legacy in Vermont that has as a whole? No. And it's like, so it's so funny. I talk to artists and my, and um, in two galleries in Vermont just had this conversation. It's like, what is going on? Um, I think because it doesn't have, uh, an art college or real focus on art, even the university of Vermont has a, a great art program, but I've, but I don't know how much they're actually, at this point, you also don't have the leg. I know it could be like shoot myself, but like the legacy artists there, there are some, but like if you go to places like Provincetown, which I spend a lot of time in O if you've been there and you've done art at some point, you're gonna get the museum show out of respect for your legacy of being an artist. Vermont doesn't really have that. So I can count on my hand a couple of artists that you would, you would know, right. Um, Woody Jackson, saber fields, and they're wonderful, but I've never seen a huge museum retrospective of them, or so there's just not that growth, that linear growth for a Vermont artist. And I think people, I always say it's a great place to live as an artist, but I'm, that's not where you're gonna make it as an artist. Um, you have got to spread your way, um, for longevity of, there's only so many places, there's very few galleries in the whole. I mean, there's some, but there's not a ton in the state. Well, I think also in me, you're dealing with a legacy that began of years ago that we know of. I mean, I'm, there probably is something more for the people it lived here originally that we just don't, we don't have any, um, way to access the history of that. Yeah. But I mean, we have Winslow Homer. I mean, we have, we have people that came to the state far, um, longer ago than I think you're talking about, you know, with Woody Jackson. I mean that's a relatively contemporary art. Yeah. And, and could be, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, can I call a friend real quick? Um, I'm sure there are, uh, there, I'm sure there are artists that like, but I it's embarra. I can't, you know, for me, it's like, okay, who are now, I'm gonna have to like go home and Google. Um, but the long you don't see these legacy, I don't know. It's an interesting, you see other places all the time. I just don't see it in Vermont. So Maybe you're just at the beginning of the legacy. Yeah. So you're just not benefiting from what was going on 200 years ago at this point. Yeah. Now I'm gonna have to research. Well, there there's no pressure. I mean maybe read up on it. You'll have to send me a send me, you'll be like, oh, actually all of these people, they are all from Vermont. So yeah. Well, my, my great aunt was the illustrator for Ru SREs reindeer. The, um, she worked with Robert May. Um, so I'm like, but she never, like no one really even knew who she was. So it's funny, like in Vermont you had illustrators, um, cuz she would, she would always say like, you know, we never get any credit. Uh, so before she passed away, they, they gave her credit. They gave her a plaque, um, for a couple other things she did, but yeah, I'm stumped on. I like don't Well, as I said, now there's no pressure, but you'll have to, you'll have to kind of continue to bring the artists of the next 200 years. Yeah. Along with you. Yeah. Do you feel up to that task? No. Maybe We'll see. Well, I mean, you're also, you've been a teacher you've worked with nonprofits. I mean, I mean, you are actually, in addition to doing your own work, you actually are working on moving art forward. Yeah. And I retired. Um, it's so funny. I'm like I retired, uh, I did it and um, I, I feel like I did it for a long time and it, I felt at a point where I really wanted my art. I wanted to give all that energy to my art. Um, you pro you give a lot of yourself out as anyone who runs any size business, you give yourself out to a lot of people. Um, so to kind of, I, I was painting the whole entire time, but I just didn't have as much it's my time. Um, and I wanna focus on my art and that takes up my time. Yeah. That's very relatable. Yeah. I mean, I think there's, I think of the energy that we put into our children, especially when they're younger and our jobs and our communities, especially when , you know, maybe we are younger, but then you're right. You do come to a time. You're like, okay, now I've contributed, my kids are good. The job's good. I've done all that I've gotta do. And now I'm gonna come back to myself a little. Yeah. And, or a lot actually. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like I owe myself that I, we, well, like I keep much joke with my mother. I'm like, we invested a lot of money for art school. You know? It, it, as an artist, I'm an investment for that. And I feel like, okay, then it's time to really, I'm in a different spot in my life. I'm not, you know, I go to bed early. I wake up, I'm very disciplined. Um, and I wasn't there, so I'm, I love it. I have my studio, I drink my cough. I go for a Walker and then I paint all day, pick my son up. It's awesome. Well, I've enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you. It's, it's really a lot of fun too. Um, I, again, I, I feel like I'll, I'll see pieces and I'll be like, I wonder what that person is like, who created that. So to put kinda a, kind of a, a name and a face to a piece, I think for me is always really a lot of, um, brings me a lot of joy anyway. Yeah. So thank thank you for, uh, bringing me that joy today. Awesome. Thank you. I've been speaking with artist, Sage Tucker ketchup. You can see her work at the Portland art gallery and also on the Portland art gallery website. Um, as we've been talking about, there is a legacy to art. So you may wanna invest in some of her pieces cuz you really don't know. Maybe maybe in 10 years, 20 years, a hundred years down the line you could be, uh, could be been a good investment for you plus it's just fun. So I'd really encourage you actually to look into the pieces of, um, the pieces that we have available at the Portland art gallery. Thank you very much for coming in today. Thank you for having me.