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Thanks for having me. So Nick, I was really drawn in by your story. You sent forward a, I guess it was, I don't know if it was exactly an artist statement. It was a story. Yeah, it was a story. It was a story as to how you were drawn into photography and it's deeply personal, but it also, it's a great illustration as to the power of art, the power of photography. Yes, I agree. Photography has been such a huge part of my healing process, my recovery from two head injuries and drug addiction and alcoholism, and I feel that without photography I don't know where I would be. So I'm really grateful to the art craft itself and to all the people I've met and worked with and have helped over the years as well. So I like to give back as much as possible and not just create artwork and take. So that's kind of the way I see it as what can you give back and hence why I volunteered at the bakery photo collective. Yes. Talk to me about the bakery photo collective. What is it? So the bakery photo collective was founded in 1999. They were founded on Pleasant Street in Portland in the bakery Calderwood building, hence the name bakery. We do not photograph muffins unless you want us to. But yeah, an old building that was turned into artist studios, basically some local photographers film photography in 1999, at that time, digital hadn't really come in. Those photographers basically went into rent a space and keep a color processor alive and color processes are very fidgety. They break off and they're challenging to keep running, and so they figured they would just collaborate. So it started like that. It lived on for many years in that building. Eventually moved to Westbrook in one of the mills and then back to Portland on far staff the building with the giant hopeful sign on top of it next to Speedwell. That's kind of where I got involved. It was around 2016, 17. I started volunteering before I was even a member to LU in Sheet Rock and help build the dark rooms. And yeah, I guess to round it up, it is a place where it has two dark rooms, digital printers, digital workstations, basically anything and everything you would need to make photographs. It's a pretty great place. Without it, there would be hundreds and if not thousands of artists overall, the 25 years it's been there and running that wouldn't have a place to make work and stuff like that. And again, because I believe in photography so much and the power of photography and how it can be used differently for different people and different approaches, volunteering my time, there was something I was very proud of. Our gallery manager, Sean Thomas, has his relationship with the bakery collective. I think he might be on the board of directors and he was the one who actually recommended that we talk to you. Yes, Sean's awesome. Yeah, Sean is, he's fantastic. And I'm always struck in talking to him with the need to build a community around something that is often pretty solitary as a photographer. Yes, that's a really good point That you still need both of, I mean obviously structure is important and places to actually create your work is important, but also the sense of community around That. Yeah, I think the community aspect is something that every photographer or any artist at that point really at a certain point in your career where it's really important to reach out to other working artists and just people that are in the arts general for feedback, for criticism, for help, for encouragement, for inspiration. There's definitely a point. And for me it was three or four years in that I started being like, I need to make more friends that do what I do and talk about these things that I have on my mind and share information and techniques. And that's really the community that's there and it's great, it's flourishing. I want to ask you delineate for me the difference between documentary photographer and other types of photographers and photography because I think that there are people who are not necessarily as familiar with that You have fine art photography, which can vary in different types of styles and approaches. I would say documentary photography is a bit more straightforward. The stuff I do I think falls in between the two of those, I would say, and often is reviewed that way as if it's kind of walking the line in between both of those genres. So to me, when I use a camera as a tool, it is a tool that records light. What I am doing when I'm out there is looking for that interest me and that also say something probably more so the older the image gets, maybe the more it says or the more it means something. A good example would be the book that we published with photo editions, a UK company, I believe the book has, it has more of a deeper meaning currently with the political atmosphere we're in. And I think it was very valuable when it came out in 2022, but I think it holds more weight now. And that's what I love about documentary photography is creating images that sit with time and grow appreciation with age. Have this book in front of me and you brought it in earlier and I was struck by this piece that we're going to put up on the screen for people to be able to see, but I'll sort of try to show you from here. It's not going to duplicate well on video exactly, but it's of three people, three younger people looking up at the sky and pointing and you said, do you know what that is? And it was different than what I expected. So tell me the story behind it. I was drawn to it just as a piece of art itself, but the story behind it makes it even more compelling. Yeah, isn't that what makes photographs or photography so interesting too? So what I enjoy as a maker of image is people's perception of what they're looking at and depending on who you're talking to, their imagination jumps in and starts to create a narrative of the image or their perception. And hearing that is always so interesting to me. Yes, this image is often I get kids looking at constellations or something like that, but actually it was taken on the 5th of July if I believe because the fourth was canceled that year due to rain. And these kids probably haven't really seen fireworks due to their, I'm guessing that based on their overall excitement and enthusiasm as they were going off on the eastern prom and just seeing their energy feeding off of that energy and trying to capture the moment that states, that states' reality but mystery. And that's that thin, that line I'm talking about between documentary and fine art. It is a real moment. Nothing's staged, it's candid, yet it's mysterious and intriguing at the same time. And that's often the type of images I want to create. In the piece that I read that described your story, you mentioned that you first went underground and you were doing a lot of work in probably somewhat dangerous places and also kind of after hours like nighttime work and then you transitioned into photographing people and the first felt kind of scary and dangerous in its own way, and then the second felt really kind of Sure, absolutely. So talk to me about being a photographer who does have people as subjects. So people are fascinating. They're wonderful and one of the main things I learned in this 10 year project, and I still shoot in the streets daily, but definitely during this 10 year project where I was at it actively every day we have more in common with each other than we don't. And I think that slowing down and engaging the city and the people is just something we don't do often because we live our own lives and we're busy and we're going to work or going from point A to point B in the city and we're not really experiencing it, we're just going through it. But I would go out with the intention of absorbing what is actually happening. And to me it was such a learning curve, growth of empathy and understanding as well as healing for me. I think at night I was drawn to that, again due to my head injuries and sensitivity to light and sound were amplified during the day. It was kind of a bit much for me at first. So with my health issues, I took the time period that I felt most comfortable and also was just familiar with that lifestyle of things happening at night in general, working at bars, shutting down at late hours, skateboarding as a young kid all hours and aspects of that. You brought it around to somewhat full circle. I mean you talked about having this head injury and having this sensitivity and also having, I mean I've worked with a lot of people who have had issues with substance use disorder and they will often tell me that when they're kind of coming out and no longer having the access to the feelings that they have while using substances, they do describe this extreme And so you have a head injury, which is obviously impacting your brain. You're coming out of a substance use disorder situation, so you've got a lot of things coming at you. And then on top of that, you throw people in the mix and people are their own. I mean, if you're going to photograph people, you have to be able to interact with them and they have their own kind of energy around them that you have to navigate. I kind of felt like I could do one or two things though. I could fall down the rabbit hole or I could climb out of it. And I think climbing out of it was a good choice. Obviously I still suffer from anxiety. I'm still diagnosed with PTSD, I'm still diagnosed with post-concussion syndrome. I haven't had a drink in 16 years I think now. And honestly, frightened of alcohol, I don't even, there's no urge. It's great. And I think that that was just a big wake up call for me. Sometimes you got to hit rock bottom to wake up and it really lit a fire under me, not only to gain my health back, but to also start doing something important with my life, or at least what I think is important. And I really enjoy making photographs. I enjoy interacting with the city particularly and our state. The last sentence of your story, for lack of a better term, talks about your trying to understand how best to push boundaries versus kind of stay within the comfort of structures. And you said it much more eloquently than I Did. But I think the theme is sort of, Yeah, you got it. Is there, so talk to me about that because I know that some people really find comfort in being in a structured place. Other people really can never be in a structured place and they're always out pushing boundaries and that you're staying in kind of the middle path. One of the lessons I learned was risk to reward ratio. So I often use that to assess what I'm doing. It may be I could use it on a bigger kind of metaphorical approach to things, or literally, should I go make this photograph or not? Or should I go here to make a photograph? And so I think keeping that in mind is really thinking about what is the risk and what is the reward? And it does one outweigh the other. I think often as photographers or artists or even people in everyday life, we do this naturally. We don't really notice that we're doing it, but we're basically assessing situations. And when you're photographing on the street and you're alone and in an alleyway or this or that, you got to have your wits about you. But at the same time, you've got to keep an open mind as well and not be judgmental. And this is also something that takes practice to get there. For me, I think that life is about pushing boundaries for yourself and hopefully in a healthy way. You only live once, so let's make sure that we're all doing what we think we want to do and should be doing as long as we're not hurting other people or ourselves, go for it. And I think having a couple of brushes with death, even very young, I'm not playing around, I'm making photos and I'm giving it everything I've got. And to pull a body of work like Portlanders out of a city of 68,000 people or so and growing, it's not easy. It's challenging. I'm not in New York City where I can just point a camera and shoot and there's people. So you really got to hit the pavement. You really got to be one with the city. And sometimes I feel like there's almost a vibe that I dip into and I can almost predict where and what's going to happen. And I know that sounds like, I don't know, maybe mumbo jumbo or something, but I don't know. I feel like there literally is, you can literally read your environment and people's behavior and kind of predict what's going to happen. And the more you do it, the easier it is to find that vibe and tune into it or that wavelength. And yeah, Portland is in my soul. One of the things I like to say is I have a story for every brick in this city, and I do. There isn't a street I haven't been on that I could tell you something about. So I love this city and I think something I'd like to bring up too is when you love a city, I think you have to embrace it for everything. And I think often people embrace what they love about a city and only the good aspect of that, and they're not really looking at the whole picture. So an example I would point out would be in a relationship you love your partner, flaws included. And so to love your city is flaws included. And I would say that's even the first step to fully understanding and appreciating where you live and also facing reality and seeing where improvements can be made. If you can't face the truth then good luck with that. Sorry, that sounded a little harsh, but I mean it's very true and I think that the love is actually more of a choice than anything else. I mean, people think of it as an emotion and certainly that's true, but it's continuing to show up whether it's a person or a place or a thing, you're still choosing to have affection towards something or not. I Mean, we have control of our thoughts and often I think people feel like they're victims of their thoughts and it's again, having a brain injury and trying to recover from that. Here I am with my brain damaged, and yet my brain's got to heal itself and figure it out. It's not an easy thing to do. I couldn't watch a movie for a half hour. I would get motion sickness after my second head injury. I would read a book and within a month I wouldn't even remember reading it. It was literally cognitive issues were through the roof. And so I had to retrain my brain to build those healthy neuro connections. And that's controlling your thoughts. And I think it's something that we all strive for to focus on the positive, to think clearly, and to have an optimistic outlook on things. And often that can get, especially in this day and age with social media and the current political climate that can get bogged down. You got to check in with yourself and make sure you're okay and put the phone down, go outside, go for a walk, take some pictures, make some art. Another photo that I was struck by is a car partially submerged in Bayside, and we'll put this online also. And I mean, it's a beautiful photograph and obviously there's something deeply unsettling about this photo because you don't expect a car to be submerged in water. So talk to me about that. Again, I think being in tune with the city and following that vibe, and this particular day it started raining. I had already been out there shooting for probably four hours, and then I just kind of realized the amount of rain we're getting, this isn't normal, and I was just kind of blown away. It was just like a waterfall for hours and I knew that there would be flooding. And so I start thinking where are the low areas of the city? And because I've been walking the streets for years, at that time, I knew exactly where to go, and I literally threw on a pair of waiters and wade into the water and made these photographs all through Bayside. There's a whole series really that's just the one that got published that also was interesting to me because I'm interested in the city infrastructure and how that allows us to live comfortably and enjoy our city. And here's an example of that infrastructure being overwhelmed by conditions created by global warming. And so it's a very simple photograph, and as you pointed out, it's very interesting to look at, but it also says a lot, I didn't need to go across the country to find global warming issues. It's literally in your backyard. And that's kind of what the whole Portlanders book is about is I think I'm kind of highlighting a lot of these social issues that unfolded from 2011 to 2021. In that 10 year period, I couldn't have predicted that those things were going to happen, that all these movements were going to start and unrest and the pandemic and all this stuff. But I certainly again picked up a camera to try to say something because I did have something to say. And I went out every day looking for the things that I wanted to say. And it's kind of like a small sample of American culture. And again, not needing to drive across the country, but finding all the things that the country is facing within one place where you live. And if you look, no matter where you live, if you look deeply at your city, you're going to find homelessness, you're going to find drug addiction, you're going to find global warming issues. I mean, these are issues that every city and town is facing, not just in Maine, but across really the whole planet. And I don't think there's anything more important than that, than these issues, these social issues, these climate issues. And so when I'm making photographs, I'm again trying to say something relevant, contemporary and important. I recently reread a quote from Winston Churchill, I believe about architecture. And it's something like we create the buildings and the buildings create us. Yes, yes. That's a good one. When I look at your pieces, when I hear what you're saying about police, I have that same sense. I mean, some of this isn't place like built place, but it all intertwined. It's all connected. Yeah, for sure. I definitely see the connection of our environment. Our built environment dictates how we move and think and feel and the other way around. We're also in charge of building that environment without going too far down a rabbit hole. I mean, I would like to talk about economics and finances. Money's just an invention and well, it's a necessary invention that we use every day. It does dictate almost everything on this planet, and it's just an invention. I think we have to remind ourselves that, and I'm not saying we don't need it or abolish it, obviously that would be a bit extreme, but where of our values as a nation, we are one of the wealthiest nations out there, and our values are based on our coffers and what we can achieve and all this stuff instead of the environment or solving actual social issues. I mean, another analogy I like to use is if I'm hired to do a job like paint your house and I don't do it very well, mess it all up, you'd probably fire me. You wouldn't let me continue to do it. What have politicians solved because they are hired to solve problems for society. Give me an example. Have they solved homelessness? Have they solved drug addiction? I could go on and on the list of things that they haven't solved, have they given us tax breaks? Have they helped on a local level at all with the environment or global? I think it's time to fire. That's what I think. And I know that's extreme, but if the people we elect are failing us, it's up to us to hold them accountable. And it's one of those things where we're comfortably numb as Americans. So I always say that, and I'm not alone. I mean a lot of people are talking about this, that it would take a drastic issue or a drastic catastrophe for us to really wake up and we're just not there yet. Even the pandemic wasn't enough. And it's kind of scary to think that we had a global pandemic and people just went right back to normal. Scares me a little bit. I don't know. I just encourage people to get involved more, even if it's on a local level. Go to your city council meetings, talk to your public officials, express yourself, whether it's through art or any means necessary to pay attention to what's going on because we're in a situation here that's unprecedented. I think that's really important. And I like the fact that you've kind of provided the space for Meet the challenge where you're coming from. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's when I often think I feel overwhelmed. I'm like, how do I run for an office? What do I do? What am I supposed to do? And I think we all feel that way. Well, someone else will take care of it. And I think that we owe it to ourselves and America and the world to all make sure we're doing something. It's that simple. It's your responsibility. You exist, you are responsible. So let's try to work together to solve problems and vote for the right people, I guess, and hope that they're not bogged down by the system. And for me, it does come back to the power of story, really, Right? I mean, it's one thing to talk about something and it's another thing to create a photograph that actually is the story. And so for you, the story that you're sharing is so powerful because there's no denying that it exists. Yes, that is true. More people are at least seeing it Now. When I started making these pictures in this kind of way and thinking, I mean, I would have people come up to me and be like, well, why would you photograph the city you love like this? And that always bothered me. And I was like, what do you mean this is it? This is reality. You want to live in a bubble. And I can't wrap my head around that. I dunno, maybe it's, I grew up poor, I grew up with addiction issues, I've had health issues. I am on disability. I'm a disabled artist. I'm a of a violent crime. This is my life. And so when I pick up a camera, I want to not focus on negativity, but focus on reality because I am an optimistic person and I believe that we can do a little better here. And I'm not saying that what I'm doing is going to solve the problems, but what I'm doing feels right with me. It resonates with me. And as you pointed out, a photograph tells a story. And as I said earlier, it's interesting to see how individuals read that story. That's actually my biggest enjoyment from sharing my images is seeing what people see and how they react to them. And it's very interesting. I dunno, maybe I should have been a psychologist or anthropologist or something, but I mean, isn't that what a photographer is? If you're documenting society in a sense, it's you have an interest in people in society. I do love this idea that you're an optimist. Totally. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't. I mean, isn't that true? Right. You kind of have to have, knowing the bottom that you say that you hit, you have to have been an optimist to believe that there's something that you're moving towards and climbing out of. And so I can absolutely understand that. If people were to say, why are you being so negative? What an insulting thing to say. Yeah, it does catch me off guard sometimes. Yeah. I'm an optimist. My partner Michelle always says, I'm a dreamer, I'm an optimist. And most part it's laughable. But I think it's also one of my better traits. And I hope that we all are dreamers and optimistic with our own lives, our own goals, and where this world is going because we are the architects, we are the photographers. We choose what we see, what we talk about, what we build, what we take pictures of. And it's up to us. It's not, we're all here together. Let's just work together to change the tone here. And I think some optimism is important. Well, Nick, I really appreciated your coming in and sharing your story with me and your vulnerability and your beautiful art. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to talk to you today. Likewise. Thank you. I'm Dr. Lisa Bele. I've been speaking with documentary photographer Nick Gervin. You can see his beautiful work in Portlanders. Also, he is affiliated with the bakery photographic collective, and Andy also has his own website. So I encourage you to look into his work. It really is quite stunning and compelling. You've been watching or listening to Radio Maine, our video podcast. We explore and celebrate creativity and the human spirit. And we do appreciate your coming together with us every week in this format. But also, please do join us in Portland, Maine and spend some time with us enjoying art and enjoying company. And we appreciate your being part of our world.