Interior Design Visionary: Paula Daher

Today we are doing this with interior designer Paula Hamel Daher, who is the founder and principal of Daher Designs. Welcome. Thanks so much for coming in and having this conversation with me today. You're welcome. And I very much appreciate this opportunity. I love talking to people who do interior design because I feel like it's sort of art brought to life. It's a functional way to interact with our spaces, and I'm just fascinated by people who make the choice to go into that field because I think it takes a really elevated sense of the visual, but so many other different aspects of being artistic. Talk to me about how you ended up making that decision for your profession. It's kind of a long, convoluted story. So I guess briefly as a child, I had always wanted to be an architect and I did not have that opportunity for schooling. And so I ended up at the local university and studied civil engineering and realized quite quickly that that was not something I was going to do. And then ended up switching into computer science and then onward, I went, graduated, started working, and I was in the tech space as a child. I had always sewn and made my own clothing and I loved that creative aspect of it. Fast forward married, I have three children. When my second daughter was born, she was a few months old and she was gravely ill. I stopped working, I had to stay home with her. It was very touch and go for a number of a few years. She has since outgrown her illness and she's a mother today and she's wonderful. So while I was home, I felt I really needed to do something. I'm accustomed to working and I just enjoy the process of work, whatever that was, whether it was in high tech or so. Now here I am with these two beautiful little girls and I'm in this home and my husband and I had just moved to this new home, and so I thought, huh, I know how to sew. I'm going to make curtains. So I made curtains for my new home and as people came in, they would say, these are fabulous, where did you get them? And that's actually how I started. So making curtains to then making curtains for other people, I ended up having seamstresses that came into the home and realized quickly it was the design aspect, of course, that I loved. So I started doing kitchen designs, and with my engineering background, it was relatively easy for me to pick up and do hand drafting and designs. And from there I went to Boston Architectural College and took many courses in interior design all the while raising my children, growing my business. And so here I am many years later and with a thriving successful interior design firm. I love that story so much because when you said civil engineering, I just thought, oh my gosh, here's a person who could have easily gotten locked into a very specific profession and just kind of gone on indefinitely, but decided instead, oh, I think I'm actually going to pay attention to my current circumstances and make a different choice for myself. So that must not have always felt easy though, because you obviously had some success in that first part of your life as a civil engineer in software and doing the work that you already did. I was not a practicing civil engineer. I started my education. So the first two years I was in the engineering department, and so that's where I learned how to draft, and I learned many of the technical skills that you actually need as an interior designer when you're drawing spaces. So then I had switched into computer science, which is how I ended up into the tech world, which at the time was the burgeoning place to be. But still architecture I loved, I loved, and I didn't know that interior design was even a career. I had no idea at that time that it was, I wasn't this, I didn't grow up in an era where people had interior designers, and I just was unaware that it was even a profession. When you were growing up, what did you think that you might want to do? You said you wanted to be an architect, but you weren't necessarily exposed to interior design. Was there, was there art in your home? Was there architecture around you? So I grew up in very basically a small city in Massachusetts, and I was just always fascinated. So I grew up in Methuen, Massachusetts, and I was fascinated by just the architecture around me. There was no art in my home. I forget his first name, but Mr. Searls had built a castle in Methuen and all these walls, and part of that was just so intriguing. And then just realizing, I don't know, at a young age that I enjoyed seeing the differences between colonial style homes and Cape homes, and I think there was the birth of the split level and all of a sudden those were popping up everywhere. So I just had an interest in it. I was intrigued by it. One of the things that I know has contributed to your aesthetic and your approach is that you've traveled widely all over the world. What types of things did you do and did you bring back into your creativity as you're making choices to help people with their homes? I do love to travel and a large part of my job when I finish a project or all the while I'm engaged in the project, which sometimes are two years long, our projects, they're ground up builds or they're complete renovations. I'm always thinking about those items that will finish the space, and some clients have items that I can work with and other clients, maybe it's their second home, third home, they don't have any, and they expect that the completed space will have everything in it. And so through my travels, I'm always looking, so whether I am in Morocco and Marrakesh is one of my very favorite places to go, or in Paris, I go there quite often as well. Or I'm in Maine with these amazing makers that I find I am either purchasing or filing things in my phone with imagery and presenting those to clients when our projects are near in completion and we're wanting to install. So it's really thinking about the client, thinking about who they are, what types of things might resonate for them and how they work in their space when finished, What are some of the questions when you sit down with a client that you begin the conversation with so that you can learn more about what it is they're trying to accomplish? That's an excellent question, and I really feel it's the crux of each and every project. I want to know who the person is, what their family component looks like. Is it a single person? Is it a couple? Is it, do they have grandchildren, do they have children, pets? All of those things are so relevant as to how they live. Are their pets really their children? Many people allow their pets to be with them everywhere, their beds, their sofas. I want to know everything so that as we're designing and as we're starting to specify materials and furnishings that it is appropriate for them, then I want to know, do they love to cook? So we're going to be working on their kitchen. We need to pay careful attention to what types of food they like to cook. Is it a mom, busy mom with four children who's making the nightly meal? Or is it this beautiful vacation home where, and every weekend is a feast of Italian this weekend and Lebanese next weekend. So I want to know everything about the clients and I want to know about their daily habits. Then we sit down and we actually think about a floor plan, and that floor plan then has to work for them if they have kids, let's really think about the mud room, where are all the things going to go so that the house is all organized and tidy and makes sense for them and their particular needs. So one of the things that I know is important to you is matching form and function and aesthetics. And is that ever challenging where people might have a certain vision of what they want and you're thinking to yourself, I wonder how I'm going to be able to make that work given that that's not the way they are actually living their lives? Yes. It's sometimes very challenging and sometimes it's really a journey. And the process of working with clients as a building are small building blocks as we go. So we start with learning who they are. We start with learning what they need in their life. Then we dive into colors that they may resonate to and the feeling that they would like to have evoked, sort of the more design aspect. While we're listening to all of this, we're then going to bring them sort of a design, and we really try to include what they're thinking. Oftentimes they don't know how to articulate what they want. However, when we pull it together, it really is the culmination. And if we're listening, if we're truly listening along the way, we can incorporate what they want into their space. Can you give me an example of a way in which you're hearing something that somebody is saying, but they're not actually saying? So this idea of articulate, not being able to actually articulate what you want, because I can imagine that for most of us who don't have a design background would be very challenging to be like, well, I like this sort of relaxed space, and you're thinking relaxed. How do I make that into something visual and then actually operationalize it? Can you give me an example of something like that? Sure. So one of the things that we try to do is at the beginning of the process of the design process is expose them to imagery. So we'll have them into our office and we just have images that will, we have a TV that's in our conference room and we just look at the image and we talk about it. What does that say? What does that speak to you? We love modern, we only love modern. Well, when we start to look at modern interiors, they might say, oh no, that's not at all what I was thinking of. What they were thinking of was potentially something that wasn't traditional, if you will. However, they weren't thinking of hard edges and little color. So it's a process again where we show them images and we try to extract from them what resonates from those images with them, whether it's color, texture, pattern, the design, just the overall aesthetic. And as I always tell people, it's not the individual item within a space. It's sort of the compilation of everything together. So sometimes when we're working, they'll say, oh, I really don't like that chair or that fabric going on that chair. And then you have to have trust and trust the process that it really, the compilation when it's finished is exactly what they were looking for from the beginning. It's listening. It's really about listening As you're talking, I'm thinking about how powerful it is to have somebody who's thinking in their mind modern, but your definition and their definition of modern are so very different. Maybe yours is a definition that is more design. It's the design definition of modern. Their definition is kind of a lived definition of modern, but you need the design definition to kind of move forward with the work you are doing. So being able to kind of extract that through understanding their response to imagery is really important. It's really powerful. And I think when I'm talking to, for me, I spend a lot of time in this space talking to artists. And because my background is not in art, a lot of what I've found really important to do is to actually understand the language around art because it does mean something really different to the lay person than to the actual somebody who's trained classically in art. So is part of doing design training, developing that language, developing that way of thinking, developing the skills around bringing something that is perhaps a little more abstract into the tangible? That's an excellent question. The educational portion of design really is the teaching tools and the fundamentals, the technical skills. What I find in working, having taken many courses in design and also with the different people that work with me in my office, my colleagues and that I've worked with for many years, different people have filtered through. It's really the experience. So school can only give you the tools that you need to design, but they cannot really teach you. They can teach you color theory. They really teach you what it means to look at colors and how you can see these subtle differences. And so it really is experience in that. I feel I have just always been so attracted to design, and I feel like I'm a sponge wherever I am, I could be at a cocktail party and I love somebody's dress. The fabric on the dress is amazing or the architecture of the space, or it's kind of like being a sponge. And I'm always, when I'm in my office working with my colleagues, I try to drive that home to them because it is our experiences. We can't learn that in school. It is walking down the street. So our office, our main office is in Boston on Newbury Street, and just I will say to them, walk out the door. Just walk to the end of Newbury Street and back. Look at every window as you're walking by and just see how they have displayed the merchandise and what does that evoke to you and what's happening for spring and what's happening for fall. And because that informs everything that we do, and that somehow can translate as we're listening to what our clients want into this compilation of the finished space for them. As I'm hearing you talk and hearing you be this sponge, I'm also thinking there must be, you must have a mind that is capable of somehow kind of sorting and organizing so that you can actually go in and pull from here and pull from here and pull from here, and putting together a visual puzzle based on your background and having that mind and having over years probably created those neural pathways. I mean, that is something very special because not everybody could actually do that. Some people just look at all the stuff when they get really overwhelmed by all the visual, for example. But you not only are absorbing it all, but you're actually creating an organizational method by which you can then go back and draw out the information and then apply it. Okay. I've never thought about it this way\! Well, I mean, don't let me misrepresent you. I'm just wondering, you speak, and this is what it is saying to me because I love the sponge-like nature of things, but you're also very organized, logical, analytical, I would guess, in order to make these things happen. Yes, we definitely have to be right-brained and left-brained in order to have a successful project and all the while run a business and work with colleagues and clients and the myriad of things that come up in every single project, millions of little things all the time. Talk to me about running a business and being a business owner. I mean, I would imagine that running a successful design business in Boston has a certain amount of pressure around it, because I think there's probably a lot of expectations, particularly if you're on Newbury Street, I think that people probably come to you and it's a pretty high level of client and the ability to build trust with that individual and be successful and do it over years and years. And now you're expanding into Maine. I mean, you've absolutely created success around this model that you have worked on for years. So what does it take to have done that? How have you, as a small business, well, I don't even know how small, but a business owner, how have you created that success for yourself? That is a very loaded question. Ultimately, the client is the most important focus of the business. And so nurturing that client and working with that client, all the other functions that have to happen around that, we must always keep that as the primary focus. If the client is not happy, they will not refer us. If the client does not have this trust, many of these projects are very sizable budgets and they have to have a lot of trust in us. And so managing all the different pieces and parts, I guess it's part of the organizational aspect, the making sure that the colleagues that we bring in have the correct skillset, that they are up to the projects that we undertake. And if we don't have somebody that's capable technically of working on these projects, then that could be a downfall. So there are just all these little elements that together collectively. So we have to make sure that the colleagues are happy. We have to make sure that they're being exposed to new ideas all the time. We have to make sure that the clients are happy. But then as a business owner, the biggest thing is, okay, we have to keep that funnel going, that funnel of clients because we just don't know. And that's a challenge. I would say that is probably the challenge of most business owners that are rooted in the service industry. So this basically, we are serving our clients and we work for them. And it's probably not any different than a law firm or an accounting firm or a physician's office. We're serving people. And so we have to keep all of the different pots, the different things that we're working on working at the same time. I don't know if there's one particular item. I guess the overall overarching thing that I have always been really has been most important to me is being truthful and being truthful with everything. So if you're with clients, you're going to be truthful about what the prices of things are. If you're working with your colleagues, you're truthful about what it takes to actually, let's pull this design together. It's about honesty. And I would say that's probably the most important aspect and the backbone of our firm is being honest so that we're an open book. And I think that that has instilled a lot of confidence. And again, it's about trying to get the right type of projects, the right clients that feel comfortable working with us. So I don't know if that answers your question. No, I love all of it mean, so my background as a medical doctor and actually having run a practice and knowing exactly what you're describing, that you want to be able to, in my case, meet the patients, meet their needs, but also sometimes bring forward my own voice in a way that's truthful and not just always say, sure, whatever you want. Because ultimately you're trying to get them to the place that you both mutually agree upon. And sometimes if you're like, sure, whatever you want, you don't get them to that place. So this idea that you're actually, you are bringing your expertise to the table in a way that is authentic, I think seems like that would be the way to keep people happy and keep them returning to you, but also referring other people to you. And that is the biggest, I think, in any service business, it's all about keeping them happy so that they do make these referrals. Because as much as we can advertise, as much as we get out and speak and have wonderful podcasts like this, and we're exposed to people, it really is... Jane that refers us from this wonderful project that we finished. And one of the things that I have recently been, I don't know why this past month, it's been really such a joy for me. I had one client, she called the office, I have not worked with her in 17 years, and she said, I just love my home so much and it's time for us to move on, and we want to work with you, and we just wanted to make sure you have time in your schedule. And then two other clients that we have worked with many, many years ago also have reached out. And I think for me, it's such a, it's so rewarding that they've been happy all these years with what we did for them. And we never know when they might circle back or they might tell somebody. And then also, Instagram is a huge tool for us, an enormous tool. And we do find that it's lovely to be able to connect and to really show people kind of the background of what we're actually doing in these projects. I think they find it more fun and they can understand it as well. I really love that because I think when I'm talking to my own children now, we're able to have a much better conversation as a result of access to imagery and access to language and access to knowledge. Then probably I would've been able to have with say, my mother if I was ever going to talk with her about redesigning a kitchen, for example. And I think that that ability to interact and have it be improved as a result of something like social media, I think that's the positive side, correct. It's the positive of that medium, which I think is really great because it also, I think it just enriches the conversation around any of these topics. But I would think that with design in particular, I agree, and having been in business now for over 30 years, it was so different at the beginning, it was so different. There were fax machines and things took so much longer. And I think there was this mystery around what we did because people didn't really know. It was kind of, we wave a wand and poof, the interior of this home is done and how is that done? And I think with the advent of HDTV and all those programs that I think it's really exposed and it has really, it's brought design to the masses in terms of people understanding the benefit, the value, having a space that is comforting and nurturing for you can really impact your life in a positive way. And I think I've seen such dramatic changes because of meeting with people now, when they get it, they already understand. They've already done their research, they've been following us on Instagram, they've been following other people on They already understand the process of it. And I think that that's been beneficial. On the flip side, it's really challenging now because everything is so fast paced, so fast paced, everybody wants everything yesterday. And much of what we do is working with artisans and we're crafting and designing one-off beautiful pieces specifically for them. And we have to work with the artists and the artisans to make these happen. And it doesn't happen overnight. It's not Amazon and put it in the cart and there it is. So that's another thing that's a challenge in terms of expectation of time and allowing the process to take what the process needs to take. I'm thinking about the artists that we work with at the Portland Art Gallery, that do commission work. Not every artist does it, but you're right, it takes time. And there are different versions of the art that the artist will work with a client on and they'll come back and they'll say, okay, well this wasn't exactly what I was thinking. And then there's a back and forth, and there's a whole process around that. So if you're in the design space where you're trying to bring together all these different elements from people who are actually makers, how do you get somebody to sew curtains faster, just for example? It just takes what it takes. It's going to take what it's going to take. And that's part of the educational process in working with 'em and having them understand and a timeline and that it's real. It's absolutely real. COVID was an awful time in terms of what that did to everybody's lead time. It really created a lot of problems. But now people feel as though, okay, that's over. We should have things right away. So it's part of our job and our role to explain. Recently one of our clients purchased a beautiful piece of art from the Portland Gallery of Art, beautiful, beautiful piece. And she said, what if it were just slightly larger, the same exact one? And so we had this dialogue back and forth, and I said, well, we can certainly check and see if we could do a commission piece, but it's never going to be exactly the same because an artist is creating something at that moment in time in their life, and they're influenced by different stimuli around them, so it's never going to be exactly the same. And so ultimately she was happy with the size and kept it, and it's stunning in her space, but it's about the time that it takes. And it's just education. Much of what we do is education with our clients. So when you are working with galleries and you're working with artists, do you have in your mind, again, a mental catalog of the types of work that is available that can be brought into a space to accentuate it or to at least just just be a part of it so that you're always aware of what art is out there? Yes. So I try to do that as much as I can. So when working with clients, some of them will say, we just don't have any idea what we would like. And so again, I'll sit down with them and I'll put a presentation together of this is what an abstract is, this is what traditional is, just like a general overview. And then I'll make suggestions as to we need something very large in this space. So then I'll reach out to different galleries of artists that I'm aware of and what each gallery has and the type of art. And then I will reach out and say, okay, I'll put a presentation together of the room. The rooms, we're looking for something 60 by 60 that feels abstract. And so I cast out a wide net to a variety of galleries. And then sort of again, back to your point, just kind of siphoning it all together and then coming up with a group that I think really will work in their space and bring it in and we see if it resonates for them. I know that you also have a location here in Maine. Yes. And I'm wondering if your client base is any different between the two locations? Are you seeing some of the people who are your Maine clients? Is there a crossover between those clients and your Boston clients? Are they very different sorts of people who are looking to do different sorts of locations? Talk to me about that. Our clients are not necessarily just in Boston. So while we do have many brownstones and lots of high rise projects that we have done, we really have projects everywhere. So I was in Florida this week, right? We have a project in Florida. So the projects that we have here in Maine so far have been clients that it's their second home. And they have found us through various different resources. But I find there's not a difference in terms of where people are. I mean, the clients are the clients. And it's our job to figure out, okay, here's your house on the water in Kennebunk, what do you want that to be? And so it doesn't matter if it's on Kennebunk Beach or in Cape Elizabeth or in downtown Boston, it's really about the client and what their needs are. So I don't find a difference in terms of it's about the house and the project, not so much what they're looking for in terms of a design aesthetic. I don't find that at all. When you're doing, I'm assuming that you must do design work for people in same client, different locations, and are people more likely to carry over an aesthetic among locations or are they more likely to say, this is my home on the water, this is my home in the high rise, please design differently. That's exactly what it is. And I feel that that's really important that we are addressing the space. We're not copying, it's not copy paste from, okay, you have, you're in Boston and now you are in Kennebunkport. It's not copy paste at all. It's about where is that house? What are the needs for this house? Because they're very different than what the pie terra is in the city, right? Or a pie terra that's in Portland versus a house on the water here in Maine. So everything is different. And then I make it, so I have one client, we have a project in Florida right now. It's my fifth project with them. I have another, we have many repeat clients. I just want to make certain when they walk in, it feels different than their other space. And I think that's a critical item. I don't want them to feel, oh, do I have that in the other house now? It must be different. And it must be the vernacular of where that house is located, which could be very different. It could be a farm. We've done farm homes and then they have a space in Florida for the winter. Very different. Well, this is very interesting to me. I feel like I could keep talking to you about this for a long time. But my final question is, we've talked a lot about the visual, but when I've had other conversations with say, architects, other things come into their considerations, including sound, including light, including time of day exposure. And is that something that enters into your design as well? Yes, very much so. For me, every project light is so important. It is critical. And if it is, for instance, we're working on a project right now in Kennebunk on the marsh, beautiful, beautiful setting. And the light is beautiful. They have lovely sunsets, but they're not taking advantage of that because the rooms are in the wrong places. So we are just flipping the floor plan all around, moving the kitchen to the opposite side of the house so that we can have them experience this light. When we're working with projects in Boston, the homes are very narrow and they only have windows in the front and the back. How best to capture that light because I think people are like plants, we need light, we need sun. We need that in order for us to feel healthy, in order for us to enjoy the space that we're in. So I would say light is extraordinarily important when I'm thinking about a design project. And how about something like sound? Do you take that into consideration? So I guess sound attenuation is important when we are in a place where there might be condos on the other side of people. So a perfect example, however, I'm working on a project where there are a lot of hard surfaces and my client is hard of hearing and we need to add a lot of soft textiles in order to sort of absorb sound so that there won't be a constant reverberation for her. So I guess I take sound into consideration. Mostly attenuation, I would say would be depending upon what the project is, or if somebody wants to have a very loud tv, we want to make certain that the room's adjacent to it that somebody might be reading, we mitigate for that. Well, knowing all that you have going on, I really appreciate your taking the time to come and have this conversation with me today. I've learned quite a bit, so thank you. You're so welcome, Lisa. And I really appreciate this opportunity very much. I encourage people who have been intrigued by my conversation with Paula Hamel de her to look her up. She is the founder and owner director, creative director of her interior design, which now has two locations. Yes. So we are at 135 Port Road and Kennebunk, and not only do we have our design studio, but very, very soon we will be opening our first sort of a love for me, a retail store called MÉLANGE, which will be a collection of home products and accessories that I have been collecting throughout the world that I'll be able to share with everyone. And that's also here in Maine? Here in Maine, in Kennebunk. So both are together, the interior design studio as well as MÉLANGE and so on port routing Very good. And if you're interested in looking into some of the artists that Paula may have used for some of her clients before, you can certainly go to the Portland Art Gallery in Portland, Maine. And hopefully Paula will come to one of our openings at the Portland Ar