Joining Medicine with Clinical Herbalism and Art: Meet Jill Skrabalak

Nice to have you here Today. Thank you for having me. Good morning. Good morning. I usually give a, some Jill the something something, but I couldn't really pick one thing because you have so many different things that you do. I mean, you're currently employed by a healthcare organization, but that's just, that's just one small piece of all the things that make up who you Are. Yeah. Yeah. I'd spend a lot of time during the weekday, uh, typically after work, having some activity, um, when I'm not with my 14 and 11 year old son driving them to and from soccer or an activity, there are things that, um, really help me feel, you know, I'm taking every moment of life, uh, and living it to its fullest when possible. So yeah, things like, um, piano dabbling in that, and, um, still a lifelong learner of the Spanish language. Um, and, um, what takes up most of my time is really studying plant medicine. Um, so looking to, um, get a master's in clinical herbalism. So I've got four classes left to finish that and, uh, find that very interesting. Not really sure where that's gonna land for me exactly, but that's okay cuz it's, it's pretty fascinating. I mean, I think I have to start with that because of all the things you just said, and I'm actually deeply intrigued by I think just about all of them. Mm-hmm. . So I don't know exactly. I'm so excited now. I am not sure where to go, but I think we have to start with that because that is such a commitment to get that level of education, that kind of depth of knowledge on a topic. It is. And I, I had a, I had a, I'm 53, so I'm just saying that because I felt like, where am I gonna go with this? And I feel like I have to be kind of efficient, like instead, you know, this is a second half of my life and I should really be very thoughtful about where I spend my time. And I do feel like I do that. And this felt somewhat frivolous because it's not, you know, I work in primary care, so most physicians aren't going to be referring to an herbalist, uh, let's say directly. Um, but at the same time, I felt like following my heart, ever since I was a kid, I just had interest in plants and we'd go on vacations and I'd always have my, you know, field guide and seeing who I could wrangle up to go out and look for, you know, a certain flower and things like that. And so I felt like if not now, when, and, um, and I'm, I'm, as I'm going, I'm finding more and more that, um, there's a big part of the population in primary care and outside of that they, they're interested in this and they want, you know, supplements or some other alternatives outside of, um, traditional medicine. So I'm okay with kind of sailing in the fog, so to speak, not really knowing where I'm gonna land. Uh, I actually think your timing is great. I mean, when I started in family medicine, there weren't that many people who were doing what have now come to be called integrative, um, therapies. Mm-hmm. , back then it was called alternative, and then it was complimentary. And, um, but now as someone in family medicine who I work with a lot of ongoing practitioners and learners of different stages, it is fascinating to me how many of them just have kind of a popular knowledge of something in the herbal area. Mm-hmm. . So your timing, even though you're feeling like it's sailing in the fog, I mean, I'm really seeing so much more of this discussion now than I ever did in any of the years that I was teaching in the family medicine space. Yeah, that's good to hear. I think that's true too. I mean, I, I work as a clinical quality specialist. I'm an rn, so I'm not directly working with patients, um, for the last, you know, four or five years. Um, and they have given me a project at work where I'm working with folks, um, patients that have dia diabetes diagnosis. And so it's interesting, I'm already seeing like, opportunities, um, uh, with, with this, um, plant medicine. And so, um, for instance, I have someone that I'm working with and, you know, collaborating with a primary care provider of course, and talk to them about this person does not wanna do pharmaceuticals. They have a very high A1C or a blood sugar. And so if this is a way to kind of enter into the conversation in a safe, um, way in a, a, uh, you know, looking at it through research articles in a, a sound, uh, way, then why should we not do that? Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm just, now I have to go even further down this path, . So I think about things like cinnamon, for example, and blood sugar. I think that's pretty widely known. Mm-hmm. , I know there are other things that are less widely known. Tell me what types of things, if you had somebody with diabetes in front of you, what would kinds of things would you pursue? Yeah, I think that, um, it, so looking at the underlying reasons for, uh, the diabetes, so is it stress? Is it nutrition? Um, you know, those are different ways to come at it. Um, and then support that person with different plants. It's different than looking at just the diabetes and say, here is cinnamon, and here is say, Metformin, which is a anti-diabetic medication, really looking at the person, um, and how they got there. Um, and so it could someone who has diabetes and say has stress, you know, a very stressful lifestyle, uh, would be looking at herbs to help calm and support the nervous system. And then yes, um, cinnamon has researched some research around it, um, and, uh, burdock root, um, there's, um, uh, gem, which is fairly popular. And, um, it, I think the thing, so, so would be some of my ideas around that, um, to support that person. And then really looking, um, where I work in primary care is to really look at how big are this, that population that has actually been studied, um, to really say and be honest with patients like, what's out there, because that's the part that gets the most, uh, challenging, um, is how big is the sample size and what did they find and what did they find long term, um, with these patients. Yeah, I mean, I think that what you're describing is really important. And one of the reasons that maybe some of these integrative, um, modalities haven't been brought more into medicine is that some of our research is still in its early stages. So we, we don't have great studies on all of these things, and my understanding has always been in part that it's because there's nobody who funds these studies mm-hmm. . So, you know, the, the, the people who are interested in burdock root, you know, the pharmaceutical companies are probably Not that. I'm so glad that you've said that. Yes, that is Yes, very well articulated. I, I mean, I don't Have a problem necessarily with pharmaceutical companies. I mean, there's lots of things to talk about there, but I mean, they have provided us with lots of wonderful therapies that have helped patients over the years. However, they're probably not the ones who are going to be investigating dandelion Yes. Or other types of plants and flowers. Yeah. I think the integration of both, we, we need them both. They're both effective and using, you know, that's, I I I'm grateful for the, you know, my experiences in the emergency medicine and as a more late in primary care and having that experience of, um, the more traditional medications, um, or approach and then combined with this is so wonderful. I just feel like it really helps me understand, um, when someone really needs something for more an acute situation versus a chronic situation. And I think the other thing that's so great about the plants is that, um, for the most part, there's, you know, there's not a high risk in, in trying some of these, um, depending on your, you know, past medical history and, um, things like that. So they're pretty gentle. Yes. Yeah. I also like the language around it. I like the idea of supporting someone, and I like the idea that what we're doing when you're talking about this is more like helping the body come back to what it already knows how to do, which is to heal itself. And, and that idea that these plants can be our allies. You know, that's, that's so powerful to me because I sometimes in medicine, and I, again, I think surgery, emergency techniques, you know, all of the things that are within the medical field, we can avail ourselves of absolutely wonderful. And, and also can be pretty hard on the system at times. Mm-hmm. . So if you can find something that you can put in a, a ak, you know, you can drink a green tea, you can do something that is just part of your life, I think that can be really, um, Worthwhile. Yeah. And I think too that people, um, just the way that a lot of those herbs are prepared, and the way I kind of see this unfolding for me, I, um, is really having folks prepare their own medicine. Um, so if they like to do teas, if they like to do tinctures, if they like to do both, if they like to take, you know, baths, uh, there's many ways you can concoct your own medicine, which in itself I think is therapeutic. And for the mere fact of just slowly taking the time to sip of tea is, is therapeutic. So it's not just the direct, yes, this plant has phytochemicals in it that are going to help, but also the, the ritual around taking them, I think can lead people back to whole wellness for long periods of time or maybe throughout their whole lives. Yeah. And maybe even growing them for some people, I mean, when I, when I see a, you know, a, a field of eha flowers, I think, you know, or cone flowers, you know, I think, wow. I mean, I'm, I'm feeling healed just by looking at them. So you start with that, and then you put your fingers in the dirt and you're, you know, yeah. You're bringing something along with you. I just, I just, that's so wonderful. Yeah. I, likewise, I've been, um, I joined a community garden last year. Um, again, just , what can I do to take advantage of every moment in life without completely overwhelming myself? It's a tele, it's like a tight road walk, but actually it like has given back tenfold. Like it is the most joyous thing because, um, you know, you can just grow whatever you want. And the medicine that I make at home, like the cula oil, is from the cula right. From my garden. And my boys have come, and my boys are pretty, like, I call 'em Sporty Spice Boys because they're pretty sporty and they're not gardeners. Um, but they've come with me and it, you can see the effects it has on them just to be there and to gather and, and to see me making things and how beautiful the oils come out and the colors, and yeah. That's, that's good therapy, , that's good stuff. Yeah. And the relationship with your children. Mm-hmm. , I mean, so, so great on both sides. Mm-hmm. , I think mm-hmm. . Yes. And they use, they're like, you know, they're my sample size of one they have, if they have something going on, they're pretty readily, uh, they're okay with me trying things on them. And, uh, and we've had some, you know, really good outcomes too with, you know, just basic first aid kind of things, but still there's magic in that. Yeah. Yes. I, I took my daughter who is 22 to the natural food store, and, you know, this was actually a big part of her growing up years. So now when she has cold symptoms, we're at the natural food store, and she's like, could I get some, I I'm out of EIA tincture and could I get some elderberry syrup to bring back to college with me? Mm. That Feels good. It really Did. I didn't have to bring this up. You know, she's grabbing some cold, seasoned tea and, you know, when my husband had a cough, I'm like, well, here's this honey that's infused with time. You know, and it, I mean, all the stuff and when you don't have, when people just kind of gravitate towards it themselves, It's, yeah, it brings you joy, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. RN is a big, uh, we go through lots of rn. In fact, I was looking at maybe growing that. We, we use it a lot. Um, yeah. And even Cooper and Cooper , he will partake. I mean, there's a couple of things where my experiments have gone mildly off a little bit, but, you know, nothing major. Um, he's still, he's still willing to, to be my, my patient at times. Yeah. Well, that's a nice partnership. Yes. Yeah. So now that you've brought Cooper's name into the mix, , I, We, we can now, um, I think let people who are watching are listening know that you, one of your connections to the Portland Art Gallery is that you are in fact, um, the partner of one of our artists. Yeah. . Yeah. Cooper Dragon it, yes. , who is Also a really wonderful person. And he is, and he gives you full credit for, um, giving him the space to actually move back into art. Yeah. That's an interesting story. I don't know if he told you, but Yeah, in short, it was, I mean, like many young couples, we were having our first, uh, so this was almost 15 years ago, our first child on the way. And we decided, well, I think it was my idea, he was a struggling as a teacher, and it was just, um, one child on the way. We just bought a house. And, but he was really unhappy in his job. And I just thought, well, this isn't , this isn't very fun. Um, so you should leave your job and you should just do what you love. And it was a huge step and, um, it really wasn't the best time to do it, and probably, probably was the fir worst time to do it, because the market crashed two seven 2007 into eight, but, you know, no regrets, um, or interesting years. Um, but yeah, um, never look back. I mean, he's, I mean, it, it not being in the work that you love to do is, um, it just wears on you. You, you, you have to be, become a different person to just survive, um, to go through it. And so he was just becoming just, just not a happy person, and that's not who he is. Um, so yeah, he's never looked back and it's been great. And the Portland Art Gallery has been so wonderful for him. And, um, yeah, we're, um, we're glad that he made that move. It's remarkable how much time he can spend at the easel too. Like he's, the other day he was down there for about six hours straight, just forgets to eat, forgets to drink. Like he's just still after all these years of painting, just really loves to do that, which is great. Like, that's what you should do then. Yes. I love the story that he told the last time I spoke with him about, um, turning his music up really loud and having the neighbor come, like, you heard this banging and banging and banging, and he thought it Was the Music while he was doing his art, and turns out it wasn't the music. No. And the neighbor was not thrilled about the loud music being played that was disturbing his piece. No, that never, he really felt embarrassed about that. You know, he's really considerate and so Yeah. That never happened ever again. Yeah. . But, you know, there's something about that that I love so much because I do think it speaks to this idea of kind of getting in the flow and, and, you know, being kind of resonating with your life. And I, I think that, you know, you and I both being in kind of traditional healthcare, you know, you have a background as an RN and I'm a family physician, and you know, you're doing population health and I'm working with a health system and, you know, I think that it's easy to say, well, this person is sick because I don't know they smoked, but, but why do they smoke? You know, what is it about that habit that they needed to keep engaging in? Is there something about their life that caused them to keep reaching for that cigarette or keep reaching for food that maybe wasn't conducive to good health? Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's the part that I think is so fascinating and that I, I really like to delve into is this. Um, and then there's, you know, different approaches like motivational interviewing, like really helping someone to come out of this ambivalent state, um, which is really where all the magic happens. Like we all do things, you know, or w want to do things. Um, and then there's this back and forth conversation always happening. Um, sometimes one one's out for a while, sometimes the other, but really to dig down like, what's, what's most important and what's holding me back? And, and to find that, you know, desire within to live your, your best life, your true self type of thing. And, um, yeah, I think that's fascinating. When, when working with people, um, with working with clients or just family members or, or children that are struggling with ambivalence, it's, um, yeah. I wonder how many people realize how deeply they are themselves. Their, their wellness and their health, their emotional health, their physical health is impacted by being in an ongoing work or other situation that really is not resonant with them. I wonder how many people just know that. Yeah. I, I, I know and I feel like I live, um, you know, I live in a, in a, I live in an area that of the world, which I'm so grateful to be on the coast of Maine. And I mean, I really, I've lived lots of different places across the country and it's so wonderful and, you know, peaceful most of the time. And, you know, people are happy and, and, uh, love lots of opportunities. And I know that's not the real world for a lot of people that they really to become aware and awakened to that could be pretty frightening because of maybe lack of options. Um, so, um, yeah, there's like who's, who's aware , who's kind of, but doesn't wanna really pick their head up and who's really not aware, I don't know. Um, but, um, but I say be bold, be bold. Um, yeah, you got one life pick heads up. Well, That's true. And I think that not everybody even has the ability to access other options. Mm-hmm. . So for me, when I think about, I mean, honestly, how, how fortunate I am in so, so many ways that when I consider other people who don't have that good fortune, and I think, well, who am I not to be grateful for and move towards something that, that is sort of something that brings joy in my life because I am able to Yeah. Like a feeling like I kind of owe it to someone a little or owe it. Yeah. Well, I Think because when, when, if you are getting your masters Yeah. And, um, you are, it's making you happy. I mean, that happiness that you have is kind of being shared. Yeah. You know, it's a happiness that you're bringing back to other people. So if you're thinking, well, I have to stick with whatever it is I'm doing because it's, I'm meant to do this, but it's really not making you happy. It kind of makes other people around you miserable. Yeah. That's a great way to look at the rip, like a ripple effect of Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , so mm-hmm. , I don't know. So that's, so that's herbalism. Yeah. Also speaking Spanish and learning Spanish, you're continuing to learn that. Yeah. I really wanna talk to another artist in the gallery. So Carlos, who's the Reason I love that there's yet another, um, Connection. There's another Art. You wanna be able to Speak With Carlos in Spanish? Yeah. So you are going, you are learning more Spanish. Yeah. That's why No, I, I mean it could be, I mean, I'm teasing. Um, I, um, yeah, Carlos, uh, GAE Francisco, um, I only have one other art in that's not true. Well, one other piece of art in our house that I just adore other than my husband's is his piece. And it totally caught me off guard and everything he, he has in there is just in online. It's just gorgeous. I mean, it's beautiful and I love the botanicals in it and, um, the female elegance and yeah, I just think they're astounding. Um, and, uh, but yeah, the Spanish, um, sure it'd be great to speak with him in Spanish. I need a few more lessons, . Um, but as a kid I've been learning since I was a kid. We have close family friends in Spain. My sister studied abroad. And, um, I think it's a beautiful language. And I, the Spanish people are beautiful people and so proud people and um, yeah, we're hoping to go in June, the whole family, cuz I love that connection to continue with my kids that they, um, stay connected to the family friends we have over there. And so which part of Spain will you be going to? Well, so they're in Madrid. So Madrid and then we were hoping in June to go to, um, San Sebastian and yeah, bill Bao North. Um, there happens to be a small race, um, the Tour de France happening. . Yeah. Just a small, Small bike race. A small bike race. Yeah. Um, Cooper's crazy about cycling and um, I'm crazy about Spain and yeah, we have lots of reasons to go. Haven't purchased tickets yet, but yeah, so the, the motivation to speak more Spanish, cuz every time I see my Spanish friends , they're asking me, you know, how's your Spanish? And so hopefully this time I can answer in a complete sentence or two. Yeah. . Well I find that for me it's the getting past the, um, like I wanna be perfect right out of the gate. I want people to be able to understand me and I wanna be like fluent, like a native speaker. And so I, I can understand a lot of what's going on around me, but I don't wanna like pipe up and be like, I think that's what the red wine's for. Oh, that's, That's a good way to look at it. Yes. Yeah. Just one glass of red Wine just disinhibit that frontal lobe. That's right. And keep you from exactly not wanting to explore . Well you know what I love about what you're saying is um, kind of, I don't know when my son, so my son went to Guatemala when he was 17 and worked with Safe Passage. Oh yeah. And then, um, he took some time also in college to go to Madrid and then he traveled to, uh, south America with his now wife before he went on to medical school. And you can better believe, I best believe I was every single one of those places. I was like, yep, I'll be there. . Yep. I'm there. So, you know, we found ways to connect and it just, you're right. Having friends in Spain and having it be like a really personal reason to make those intersections, I think is very important. Yeah. I think it really can put them on a track for seeing life outside of a small town in Maine and the world's much bigger place and, um, being uncomfortable cuz it is uncomfortable. I remember the first time I went abroad and um, it's a good uncomfortable, um, and uh, the world's much bigger and it, it just helps someone, I think it helps you find your place in the world a little bit more. I mean, that's an ongoing process, but, you know, where do I wanna be? Where do I wanna go? And to be able to travel I think is, that's a pretty quick ticket to, to get there. Yeah. And I would also just love for him to, I'm talking about the older one now cuz he's 14 to, you know, similar to your son, maybe, you know, stay this, you know, tr study or stay there just for a couple of weeks in the summer to, you know, independence and be comfortable alone. It's a safe environment and yeah. So keep my fingers crossed on that. We're, we're working towards that. He's not so excited about the idea, that's why I'm, but you know, he's 14 and comfortable at home, so, you know. Well, there's time. Yeah, there's time. I mean, I, I remember when Campbell, so he graduated from high school and he was 17 and Safe Passage wouldn't let him come work for them until he was 18, but he went down when he was 17. My 17 year old son who like, like he, he sometimes could remember to bring both shoes on his feet because he left. Yes. Yeah. And he goes down to Guatemala and he is not even of age yet. Yeah. And for me as a parent, it was this enormous leap of faith. Like, I hope there is some spirit out there that is paying attention. Yeah, Yeah. Like if he's not remembering his shoes, how is he remembering to like catch the bus to take him to Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I feel like they know a lot in there and they're just, they're relying on us, um, a lot and the home environment. So, I mean, to be clear, he has now worked his way into a responsible mission, presumably responsible because he's now working as an emergency room resident, so Oh, okay. Yes. He Probably has his shoes then. Yes. No, he now, I think he wears both shoes and, you know, no, Campbell, you are a wonderful individual. I don't in any way want you to think I'm being critical. I'm just describing this interesting developmental process of not only being the person who is exploring another country, particularly at a young age, but also the the need as a parent to have that happen. Yeah. But letting go of that. Well, we'll have to talk again in a few years and see where things stand with you at that point. Sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. So the other thing that I know has happened for you is, uh, that you've recently brought a, a piano back into your life. Yeah, so, um, so I have, um, my mom passed away in March, um, of 22, so it'll be a year next month already. And my mother was, I'm a lot like my mother and I like to just dabble in a lot of things. Um, I would call her the quiet little artist. Um, she also liked to draw and paint and things, but, um, I mean she was brought, she was the home manager or a homemaker I guess you would've called it during her time. But, so she didn't spend a lot of time doing those things. And maybe that's why I do what I do, which is, um, like to stay busy and absorb and, uh, try new things. And so one of those things is, uh, her piano. So she had a small baby grand piano. And my dad, you know, my sister and I both played when we were little and my father had said, you know, you really should take the piano. And I was thinking something smaller because this is in a piano in upstate New York and it's not cheap to have it delivered and where am I going to put it? And if I move, like you think about all these things like a, a piano to, to follow me the rest of my life. And so I almost didn't take it. And then I did, and I'm so glad I did because it's inspired me to play piano again. And it's just a lovely sound to hear in the house. The boys have both taken lessons off and on and um, you know, it doesn't sound perfect at all. Um, which is kind of the sweetness of it. It's just to hear different people tinkering on it. And, and when I sit down to play it's um, it's like one of those few things. Like we talk about Cooper, I talk about Cooper in the studio where he's just painting for hours and this is like one of the few things I can do that just, I'm not thinking about anything else. And I love that. And I don't know what it really, what it sounds like, nor do I really care at this point. Um, but it's just very relaxing and it helps me feel really close to my mom and, um, yeah. Yeah. And we also have some neighbors in the house that play, young boys that come over and I love that they just walk in, they're like, hello? And they'll sit down and play and, and they're, some of them are pretty amazing. It's a, it's a fun thing to have in the house, so I'm glad for it for so many reasons. Yeah. I love the connection to your mother too. Yeah, yeah. It really is. I mean, I have lots of things of hers, you know, sweaters or jewelry and we had very different tastes. Um, so I have just a few, few different things that means a lot to me. But the piano is really like, cause that's where she sat and her fingers touch the keys and, and, and you do. Um, I do feel just that she's there when I'm sitting. Yeah. Especially when I'm struggling like I'll just start struggling and start to lose a lot of grace in my piano playing . And I'll think of her and it's like, okay, just bring it back. Bring it back. Just have fun. Just enjoy. So She's she's still with You? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Mm-hmm. . Well, Jill, I really appreciate your taking the time to talk with me today as a sort of fellow, um, wellness, um, uh, colleague and also creative spirit. I, I think that, uh, you know, I've, I've heard about you for such a long time through your husband for dragging it, and it's always a different thing to actually, you're, you're like, you're like the person. Um, you're like some mythical being that, that exists outside of Our consciousness and here you Are made manifest. So Yes, same here. It's really been wonderful to get to know you today. It's been really nice too. It's been really nice talking with you and, um, I, I didn't realize that we had similar interests, so it was nice talking about those things and uh, I'll keep you up to date of what's happening in the, in the, in the plant world and in, in and in the teenage world and all that. And in all the Worlds. Yeah. In all the worlds. Yeah. We'll, we'll stay back in touch. Okay. Yes. I've been speaking with my new friend Jill Scrabble and I hope that you, uh, are able to happen across this lovely individual at one of the upcoming Portland Art Gallery openings, where perhaps you might also meet her wonderful husband, Cooper Trak. Thank you, Jill. Thank you very much.