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Kim Case of Cape Elizabeth, Maine Reflects on Her Winding Path to a Fruitful Art Career

October 21, 2021 ·44 minutes

Guest: Kim Case

Visual Art

Kim Case began her creative journey as a photojournalist. After growing up in central New Hampshire, she trained in art history and photojournalism at the School of the Museum of Fine Arts at Tufts University in Boston. Finding the field of photojournalism difficult to break into, she went on to photograph weddings, using images to create narratives of a couple’s special day. She eventually became editor of the first home and design magazine in New England. Her paintings often reflect a storytelling approach, whether depicting a farmhouse swing framed by the White Mountains, or a fisherman’s shack on Casco Bay. Kim now paints from her studio in Cape Elizabeth, Maine, where she has made a home with her husband and son. Listen to our conversation with Kim Case today on Radio Maine.

Every week, Dr. Lisa Belisle brings you an interview with a member of our artistic community, including artists, art collectors and more. If you enjoyed this video, please like and subscribe to Radio Maine! Browse the full collection:

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Kim Case is represented by the Portland Art Gallery of Maine. View her latest work:

https://portlandartgallery.com/artist/kim-case

Browse more Maine art online:

https://portlandartgallery.com/

Transcript

Auto-generated transcript. Lightly cleaned for readability.

I have with me artist Kim case. Thank you for being here. Oh my pleasure. Thank you for having me, Kim, you have been all over, uh, new England and I believe, but also to other parts of the country, you spend some time out on the west coast and you're back here now. Why Maine? Um, main is the best we had. Um, my husband went to a college of the Atlantic and, uh, that was kind of our anchor. Also, my parents happened to live in Cape Elizabeth, so that brought us north to spend some time with them. But you originally grew up away from the coast. You now live in Cape Elizabeth, near the coast, but you originally grew up in the mountains. That's great. Central New Hampshire Moultonborough, San Harbor, a sandwich area. Um, do you miss the mountains? Well, we were fortunate enough last year we purchased a home up there. So in Tamworth. Um, so we've been spending a lot more time up there. So you get the best of both worlds. It sounds Trying. Yep. And it's great to introduce my son to a lot more of the hiking and what the whites have to offer instead of just the ocean, just the ocean. But yeah, Just that beautiful thing that most of us enjoy as we, you know, go up and down on our drives or, yeah. Yeah. Tell me about your son. How does he like living in Cape Elizabeth? Uh, he loves it. He loves the school system. He's right now he's a soccer player. So that's a new thing for me as a mom being introduced to travel sports, traveling around, making a team meetings, things like that. It's a whole nother aspect of being a parent. I had Penn seen coming, but keeps you busy. Yeah. Even at the age of 10, that can be a little intense. There's lots going on all the time. They keep things organized, right? Yeah. I think I remember, um, as you and I were talking before, all of my children are older now. And so this is a little bit in my rear view mirror, but I think I remember when I first hit the childhood team sports era, I was thinking, but they're just little, like, this is a lot of effort to keep things organized around them, you know, so that we can then go stand on the sidelines and watch them for hours while we're wearing our heavy sweaters. It's October, we have gloves on already. Oh, it's, it's, it's really funny. That's so true. Your end, you're committed though. You signed that, you know, you sign up, you get to show up and, um, otherwise it's kind of not a great message for the kids if you're not going to be there as often as you can. But, um, no, I, the standing on the sidelines, hilarious, we've all got our chairs and how they make the chairs with the little hoods over so that you can escape from the sun or the rain. And I've seen people with plastic, it's like a little tent that they set up next to a soccer game to enjoy it. But yeah, people get, Yeah, I guess I, I missed that whole era. I'd never, I never had a, I mean, we barely had chairs at that point. We were, yeah. I can't, I mean, it would have been really nice to have like a, something to hold the write off instead of just an umbrella. And yeah. So how do you balance the, um, the full-time parenting being an artist? Uh, The balance that, oh man, um, it was a lot tougher pre pandemic when my husband was traveling and then I really needed to be a stay at home mom and, and stay in paint while he was in school. Um, pandemic came, then it shifted and became something different with his having to do remote learning. We chose to be remote learners. Um, and so that was essentially I do, you're given instruction in the morning. And then it's up to you as a parent to make sure that the actual schooling happens. So I learned a lot of math. I learned the new way to learn math, which I had no idea that were teaching. Um, and, um, and things shifted. I, I have a studio at the house, a small, um, used to be a pool house. My husband trained, transformed it into a little studio space and I couldn't really work out there anymore because I needed to be inside watching what was happening before things would get out of hand. Otherwise things would get really off track. Um, so we created a school room out of my studio and one half would be my, what was where my son worked and the other half is where I worked. And that's shifted again, things too for me, because I normally work in oil paints, which is what this one is in. And, um, I had to switch that up and become, uh, I didn't want him breathing the same fumes that I've kind of said, okay, I'm doing this. Um, I had an air purifier in that, in the room, but even, so you kick, when you come in, you can smell. It's an artist's space, there's chemicals in the air. So I switched to acrylics, which are much more mild. You still don't want to eat them, but they're not as they don't have the same kind of level of fumes. And with that, I had to try something else because I found I wasn't able to paint the same, um, subject matter as I, um, do an oil. So it just wasn't coming easily. And I was fighting the materials too much, acrylics dry, much faster, you have to work quicker. Um, so that I'd always been interested in doing some abstracts and that, so that led to, um, a different series down the line as I adapted or tried to adapt to the times now, um, he's back in school and I can begin oil painting again. That's really interesting because those of us who don't spend time painting wouldn't necessarily think that that difference between the drying time of a paint would make such, um, would challenge you in ways that you're describing. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, oil painting like this one has multiple layers. There's the sketch underneath there's the, um, they call it a GSI, which is a, uh, a tonal painting underneath. And then you're adding layers to create different layers of, um, or different effects of luminosity. Um, so where I want to keep things bright, I don't have, uh, so much underpainting underneath. I keep. Um, whereas over here, might've laid on the underpainting a lot thicker with, uh, acrylics. Um, the paint is not, doesn't have the same. Uh, acrylics actually are much, can be much. Um, they're more opaque. I'm going to get myself into trouble here because I'm no professional, uh, NOAA expert on them. Um, but the they're much more on pig. So what you lay down is what you get. And I had a really hard time kind of picturing how that would work, where I'm so used to the multiple layers. And I would try to work with, um, doing that, but, um, then the paints would dry and much more quickly before I had a chance to, you know, work in the extra layer that I was going to do somewhere. It was, it was a fight. So I was like, this isn't going to work. I need to rethink this. How am I going to work with these, um, people do it all the time, but I wasn't able to make it work smoothly. So Looking at this piece that you did, I can see now that you're describing this, give him time to cut that out of the, looking at this piece that you did. Um, I can see the different of the, almost the dappling of light underneath the trees and the different, uh, gradations of, of tone that you're describing on the tree trunks. And I can see that that would be challenging if you had in your mind, how you were going to set that up and then we're trying to use a completely different type of paint to make that happen. Yeah. Yeah. When you are, um, um, when you were an artist and you have essentially, for me, creating art is you have an image, a vision of what you want to communicate and, um, the longer you work at it and become more familiar with your tools, the more quickly you can communicate what you're trying to get to. And, uh, the more successful communicator you can become. But if you're trying new different materials, um, you have to have a lot of respect for that new material and take into account. You need to learn it. I was like, I used to be a photographer. That's how I first started out in art. But, and every time I had a new camera, I couldn't just assume that I could show up at a gig with the new camera and expect it to work for me. I had to really study it, learn it, understand its quirks. Um, otherwise everything would come out a mess. You need to, you have to have respect for your tools. And, um, so as when I decided to become an oil painter, I really had to learn that process, learn that, um, learn those tools. And then again, when I became an, it started doing acrylics, I had to, um, dig right in and, and learn something brand new, Which of course wasn't really anticipated. It wasn't planned at all. No, not for anybody. I don't think. Yeah. Did you take any lessons away from the acrylics that you are now using as you come back to oils A deep appreciation for those who use acrylics regularly? Um, and, um, I miss some of the freedom of it. Uh, it's just, it's paint and water fill out like simple water colors. Um, and, uh, you don't generally have to do so much underpainting, but, um, yeah, I definitely appreciation for those who can work with it easily. Talk to me about the subject matter in this, in this piece right here. Um, so this is right below the white mountains, and this is probably mountain pass. The Conaway Chicara, uh, is probably off this way. Um, this is a hillside farm that I drive by on my way to a cottage that my husband and I have up in Tamworth. And I've just always loved, loved it. Um, my grandfather grew up coming to this area, uh, as a little boy from Philadelphia and he, one of his mentors in college was the man who lived at this farm. And, uh, so there's always, there's a little connection there actually. I've never been in a farm it's own of course, by some other family now, but, um, yeah, it just has a special spot in my heart for, for that family connection and being able to drive by the whites, which I love so much. Yeah. So when you're describing which mountain this might be, it's interesting to me, because for me, it's like when we go out on Casco bay, all for some people, all the islands look the same, but, but for us, of course, and I know that you live near Casco bay. Also one island is not the same as another island is not the same as another island. When you look at this mountain and this painting, does it make you think of the hikes that you either take now with your son and your husband or that you used to take before? Oh, sure. Yeah. Um, I took some liberal, uh, some, what's the word liberal. I goodness, thank you. I take some liberties with the mountains. Um, so I'm not sure that anybody would come along and recognize them, but for me it has a definite recognition value. Um, and yes, F absolutely driving through with, you know, the first time we see Chicago or coming from Maine, um, there's a contest in the car to see who sees it first. And then, then we make a big shout out, you know, like Chicago as we comes and be kind of win five points. Did you happen to have any sadness when the, when the face fell off? The, the old man and the man, right? Yeah, that was I, well, I was living in Oregon at the time, Portland, Oregon. I was living in the other Portland. And, um, I heard about that and, oh man, that was really sad. Have they tried to fix it? I don't even know if they tried to, I would guess not. I don't know how you put a, I don't know how you put rocks. I got a rock face. I thought there was some talk about trying to, I don't know, manufacturer it back into place, but yeah. Well now you and I will leave this conversation. Don't look it up and see if they put the face back on the man of the mountain. We'll Google it. I think that the, when I look at this, it it's the swing that really speaks to me. Oh yeah. And you know, this idea of a beautiful day sitting on the swing, just being a kid again, kind of free looking at what's around you and not being, um, not needing to be anywhere. Just do you find that when people look at your pieces that they will come to you with stories of their own lives? Um, I think for sure people are drawn to things that echo have echo for them. Um, and that's actually what keeps me painting is the stories that I make up in my head. Um, I studied journalism at school and, uh, which took me into photo journalism, but I, yeah, always interested in people's stories. And when I make paintings, a lot of the ones that interest me the most and the ones that seem to move quickest are the ones where you just have a feeling like somebody is about to turn off a light in the window or that someone's just walked along the path, or maybe they just left the swing. Um, or maybe they didn't just leave the swing. And the swing has been quiet for a few years as the child's gone. Um, so yeah, full of stories like that, I think of things as they go and they kind of keep me engaged in the painting because painting is such a, especially in oils and paint is the size can be such a long process that come up with all sorts of things that keep you engaged in the peace. Well, it's interesting that you would say that because, um, I hadn't really considered that before, but, but when you paint, you really have to be intensely focused on something for some prolonged period of time. Yep. And that's not easy for everyone. No. And I found talking to different people that it's, and I'm sure you've heard many different people talk about their process. And, um, I have friends who listen to nothing, you know, I've talked to people who watch TV while they work, which I can't imagine because I'm too making it busy, making up a story with my own pain. I can't involve that. I listened to music generally to keep me going sometimes a book on tape, if it's, um, getting really dry and nothing is kind of, and then I actually know that that painting isn't going to be very good because I'm distracted, um, or, and want to be distracted from it. So then it's like, ah, no, that's funny. I just realized that right now. That's a really interesting, interesting point. I really just realized that, that if I'm listening to a book on tape and, or wanting a story as I'm working the painting, probably isn't one that I'm that engaged in and I'm probably better off just letting it go until I find one that I'm just happy working on for itself. Yeah. So the next time you're at an opening and somebody wants to talk to you about your painting. I hope they don't ask you was this, whether you are listening to That's right. Then I'm in trouble. That's right. Chris is no hard and fast rules. I'm sure there's flexibility within that. But yeah, generally. So how did you, when did you realize, I guess when you were growing up in New Hampshire that you are attracted to journalism, the visual arts that you wanted to actually make a life of this? Um, um, I re I have a really strong memory of my mother encouraging me to draw of, um, being successful at that. Um, I remember they took us, we lived in central New Hampshire, but, um, the one weekend they took us, uh, to Camden for one of those sailing, overnight trips. And I was drawing as fast as I could, all the sailboats I was seeing and all that, the sailor doing work. And, um, one of this, um, crew of the sailboat that we were on wanted to buy some of my drawings and I was maybe, I don't know, 12 or something. And I had no idea that people actually could sell their work or, you know, if you weren't Monet or, um, and, uh, it, it just kinda, it just kinda clicked from there that this was something that, oh, maybe there's something here I need to take a closer look at When you worked as a journalist. And then also as a photographer, there were, you did a lot of commercial work and you did a little bit of wedding photography. Yeah, I believe yes. Very much. Yeah. It was a wedding photographer for five or six years. And I was, I had a studio on Newbury street in Boston. Um, and I loved it. It was a ton of fun. I got to travel quite a bit, um, meet, met amazing people. Um, and, um, that was, it was fun. I, I love pretty things. I love pretty flowers. I love, I love the whole, you know, being part of somebodies falling in love story. Um, back then we see it everywhere now. But back then, there were very few photographers who were doing photo journalism, applying that to their work. And, um, I was one of the first few folks who is selling that as my, my genre. And, um, it really resonated with people because it was all about the story. Again, the story, what is, um, the story of the wedding, what the flow of it, how it, um, who were the characters involved, um, and then create at the end, I would create this book that would be this beautiful, magical book of the photographs of them looking their absolute most amazing, um, with all the people that they love most in the world. I mean, who wouldn't want to be part of that, right. It was just astounding. And then to be paid really well to do it and get to travel the gorgeous places. And I got to know Cape Cod really well. So yeah, I loved it. Um, eventually when I got married, it became really hard challenge. Um, and it takes a whole ton of energy to beat, to show up and be your best and have all your equipment working perfectly. And, and at some point I realized I had enough, um, of that kind of life and was ready for something new. And so I eventually went into, um, art and publishing from there. So, So tell me about that epic of your life, I guess, the, the magazine piece and how you applied your skills in that setting. Um, So there was a transition point between, uh, being a wedding photographer. I was, I was living in Portsmouth. Wasn't sure quite what was next. I knew I loved art. I knew we loved photography and I had a vision of opening a photography gallery where most of the work would be photographs. Unfortunately, my timing was really bad and we had that tech bubble that burst and the market was really struggling. But, um, I was able to, I was, I found, I wasn't able to sell the photography, the photography of all my friends work, that I was hoping to move along in my own work as a photographer. Um, wasn't selling so much, but art was selling paintings and, um, drawings, people were still investing in that, so that the, the gallery I had, um, it was called the case gallery on market street. And Portsmouth had, um, lots of art and that was my first real dip toe dip into the art, um, business, the art world again. Um, uh, so I plugged away at that for about almost two years. Um, but I was not a retail person having, um, it just was that takes a certain kind of mindset. And that was just not me. Um, so someone walked in offered to buy it and I couldn't resist. I, it seemed like the answer to a lot of things. And then almost within the same week, someone introduced me to, um, the new publisher at accent magazine in New Hampshire, in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. And she was looking for someone to take over, running her magazine as editor and I, it started as a relationship and a conversation. And I thought maybe I would just come in and help her on some, I don't know, the creative side. And, um, but she liked what I had to offer. And she liked that I had a lot of contacts in the community and, um, I had a lot of energy and was really interested in working with, and, and exploring this new field for me. And she said, you want to run this thing? And I said, let's do it. And so we started off and I had a blast. It was really, um, it was great people. It was a lot of getting to know the entire state of New Hampshire getting to know the sea coast. Um, and, uh, yeah, it, yeah, I'm not sure what else to say about that. It was great. So how did you, We get from there to then doing what seems to be a much more so Pursuit? Um, that was a more practical experience. Um, when we moved up to New Hampshire, I'm sorry. When we moved up to Cape Elizabeth, um, I, we went, um, primarily to be closer to my parents who were having major health problems and at the time they're fine now, or they're better, but at the time it was looking kind of iffy and like they might need a lot more support. Um, so when we moved in to Cape, I thought I would continue in publishing in some form, but, uh, my husband's career at that point was really taking off and requiring a lot of travel. He works for a software company out of California, and, um, he had been amazing and had built for me, many studios. He had built for me the gallery. Um, it was time for me to slow it down and let him fly. Um, so I decided I was going to work on my art and see where that led me, um, work on being a mom, see where that led us and, um, yeah, uh, commit to that for awhile. So, and it actually has been wonderful. It's felt, um, really like fortunate that we're able to support each other this way, that it's worked out so well, that he's able to do what he needs to do for his work. And I'm able to actually stay at home and work on my art and raise my child at the same time. It's been a real blessing. Do you miss this other aspect of your profession that is more kind of outward facing and, um, connecting with the community and having lots of conversations? I mean, what you're describing is kind of the extroverts dream, I think, and then you moved into what probably is more of an introvert's dream, I would guess. Yeah. Well, all of that is absolutely true. Um, yeah, the community, the, the con the constant conversations, the excitement of, uh, getting a publication out the door in time, very intense, very exciting. Um, and you know, when you're sitting alone and it's just, just you trying to make that one painting come to life, that's a whole nother, um, experience, but I actually have found a more introverted side of myself. It's almost, it's almost now a push for me to get in the car and go to the gallery opening because I need to be there to, you know, to support other artists and to put my face forward. But it's like, I was like, oh, I'm more of an introvert than I thought I was, um, in some ways. So, but yes, I definitely miss the conversations and the engagement I've when I came to, um, Cape I, I took on what was pretty much a volunteer role as being publisher for the local newspaper there, um, the Cape courier, um, and I'm still on the board, but, uh, so that kind of keeps me a little bit of what's what's going on and, um, keeps me a little bit engaged, but it's not the same kind of huge, um, push. So would you consider yourself to be more by nature, extroverted or introvert? I think more of an introvert. I very happy spending time alone. I'm very happy, um, thinking and working on things and hyper-focused on what's in front of me. I don't, um, necessarily need other focuses input or energy around me to kind of keep me going through the day, which I understand is what an extrovert is about. Um, and I actually, I'm more than half phone call with a friend more than keeps me going and a party. If I go to a party, I'll have a good time and then I'll want to sleep for a week. So, yeah, it's probably, I think that has worked with the work that I do. Um, I'm not sure how an extrovert could really survive all the intensity of being alone, uh, day after day working on painting, but I'm sure there are plenty of folks who do that. Well. Well, the reason I asked this is I think that, um, it was a book that was published within, I don't know, the last 10 years, something like that, that was about introverts. And I think a lot of, and I consider myself to be an introvert by nature, an extrovert probably by training. Um, and I think a lot of us felt validation with this particular book that was written about being an introvert. And I think a lot more people are accepting that this is a thing that being quiet with your own self is really okay. There's nothing wrong with you. It's just who you are. And that's fine. Um, but what I've been fascinated by just in my own life and my own trajectory is, is that I actually do get joy from both exactly as you've described, there's a certain amount, then, you know, I really enjoy talking to people and in my job, I've kind of trained myself to do that better, but I'm also perfectly happy to be completely by myself for hours at a time. And I, and I think that that's one of the things that maybe gets left out of the conversation is that you, you can go through phases in your life where one is more than the other. You can train yourself to be a little bit more one way or the other. Yeah, Absolutely. And I think what you say about the stages of life is really true as well, because as a younger person, when I think we're just set up hormonally energetically to be constantly searching, uh, for your community, for your partner. And so does spending time alone kind of creates that anxiety feeling like I should be out there engaging, but as we got older and those things become more settled, those questions become answered. I think who we really are, as people are emerges more, it's my guess with maturity very well. I said, yeah, well, and I do think that that's something that many people struggle with over time, right. Is who we actually what's, what's the core and elemental nature of our, of ourselves. And is it something that we had when we were younger and somehow kind of paint over and then have to sand away to get back to we're older? Is it kind of pieces of a puzzle that start to fit together in some way? So I, I, I enjoy talking with people who have gone through a process like you have, because you've, you obviously started when you were 12 with a sense that, okay, I, I like this, this draws me in and also other people value it. And then you've kind of had a, a curving path that's led you back to that 12 year old self. Yeah. It's amazing how many artists I've talked to and met who have, who almost all of them have some point early on where they were had an aha moment, you know, and that's not just artists, right. It's many people who kind of, oh yeah. They kind of had this little window into what calls to them, um, down the road. Um, yeah. And it is amazing what kind of like projectory kind of can, can lead you sometimes in the direction you think it will. And other times you end up in Portland, Oregon. Well, how Did you end up exactly in Portland, Oregon? Uh, that was, uh, there was a boy involved. Um, I was actually in Washington, DC. I was working for a magazine, um, doing photo journalism for them and, um, but missing my college boyfriend and called up and he said, um, you want to come out? And it's great out here. I had, um, I'd been offered a full-time position at the magazine at that time. I'd been working as an intern, but I couldn't, I couldn't even begin to pay for an apartment on with, um, you know, you would get for photo journalism job. Um, yeah. So, uh, this sounded pretty interesting. So I had it on out there. It's funny how many stories begin with there was a boy or there was a girl it's not an uncommon, I think to hear no. Well, it's one of the most powerful, um, as a young person, one of the most powerful polls, right. But we're in, we're looking for that partner. We're looking for that place in our world. And who, who are we going to make that place with? And yet you did not end up with this college Boyfriend. No. Um, he was a true wild spirit. He was, um, I met him when I was working for the Appalachian mountain club up in New Hampshire. Um, and I loved hiking, but I learned to really love hiking with him. He was just fearless and would get up at the crack of Dawn and hike all day, every day if he could. Um, and so he wanted to experience bigger mountains, bigger vistas out in Oregon, um, after the whites. And, uh, so we had a ton of fun exploring the wilderness out there. Um, but that wasn't meant to be a he, um, well, I wasn't making any money as in trying to find work as a photo journalist in Portland, Oregon. Um, I actually found it a really intensely, um, uh, male dominated world, um, that I was having to fight a lot. So I took on a job at fidelity investments and finance of all things and, uh, was making my way up through finance. And that was the antithesis of what this boy was interested in, but I needed to put a roof over my head. And, um, so yeah, he went the other way and I eventually met, um, my husband. Well, that was what I was going to get to next is you didn't end up with one boy, but you ended up and I'll say, man, cause I assume that's the case. If you ended up somehow with this other man, the man that you were meant to be with, apparently. Yeah. So my, uh, my boyfriend at the time was very good friends, um, with a man who was on the east coast and when the boyfriend left, I stayed friends with this, this man, um, Mike, and he introduced me to the man who would become my husband back on the east coast. Um, and yeah, so I got to keep the friends and met my husband in the process. Yeah. And the first boyfriend not only gave you all these great experiences, but somehow led you to the person that you would end up having a future. That's right. That's right. It's funny. How, if I hadn't been out there, I would never seen the picture of my husband, Tim, on the frigerator of this friend's house. And I say, oh, who's that? And something, literally I shivered when I saw that. And I said, who is that? And it said, oh, that's my friend, Tim, you don't want to meet him. And I said, really, why not? He's like, oh, because then you'll fall in love and then you'll break up and then I'll lose you both as a friend. So no, you can't beat him. I said, what? And, uh, but he was serious. Um, until I eventually ended up moving back, um, my company moved me to back to Boston and, uh, um, maybe a month after I returned, Mike was out there on a business trip and, uh, Tim was giving him a ride to the airport and they said, Hey, you want to have lunch? I said, really, you want me to meet your friend? And he said, oh yeah, sure. That'd be fine. And man, we really hit it off and spend every weekend together for a year after that. So there's a kind of a set of, there's like a theme here. This, this unavoidability of something that's meant to happen. Yeah. I mean, not only for you as an artist, but also for you in finding this very special person in your life. Absolutely. Oh, there's a definite river of fate running through life that I'm sure it's just, it's almost, it's like magnet poles in different directions and to fight the magnet is, feels disruptive. And I feel like we almost kind of bounced from pole to pole on, on this as we go through life and in big ways and small. Yeah. Are there other big ways that, that you can think of in your own life? Um, nothing's really coming to mind, but you certainly know that when you hit them. Right. Um, uh, naming my son, Finn, I had no idea where that name came from. We'd been talking about other names, but, uh, I, when I was in labor, the name just came coming, kept coming to me. This is, and I finally had to write it out just to be sure. And that was it. It was, I said, I'm sorry, honey. I know you don't like the name so much, but this is it. This is what he wants to be called. And, uh, he, he got on board eventually, but

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