This Sculptor was the Second Highest-Ranking Woman in the US Government: Meet Paula Stern

I have with me artist, Paula stern. Thank you for joining me today. It's a pleasure. Happy to meet you. Yes. Good to meet you even if remotely, someday, hopefully in person. Well, I've heard so much about you and, uh, I feel like I've become a member of the Portland art gallery FA extended family. Well, I know that we feel the same way about you and it's wonderful because you're actually located out of state. So having the opportunity to connect you this way is pretty special. Amen. I agree. Well, I'll be coming back up to Maine next week and, uh, I get there as a, as man. Excellent. So, because you do actually have a main connection, in fact, you you've lent us, your daughter. Yes. And, uh, we should spell main, uh, with, and without an E in that case, because my daughter is very special and, uh, uh, her family, uh, is growing and we're, um, uh, there's not an, I, I wanna be there full time and, um, I try to come up very frequently. She is, uh, uh, very active practicing pediatrician and she needs some, you know, help from her from, from, uh, what we call Nona, which is grandma for, uh, her kids. Well, I'm glad you're able to do that. I know I appreciated that when my kids were growing up and my parents' involvement, and I think it, it has led to a very close relationship, Never enough time. I absolutely, uh, uh, recognize that, uh, they they're, they're not my only grandchildren. I have two in Manhattan as well. Uh, came, came ahead of my two little boys in Maine, but, uh, is there's, I, I wish I could transport myself daily there. So that's where your son is living is Manhattan, Right? He is. And, uh, I guess in this day and age, uh, everybody's a little etic. Um, my, uh, uh, daughter in law, uh, my son's wife is from Italy. So, uh, uh, their children know no national borders and they're really traveling all the time, uh, both in terms of language and, and just mentality. And, um, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's a, it's a wonderful world, despite the fact that we're, uh, uh, talking at a, a really tough time in history. And you're currently located in Virginia I'm wa right in Washington, DC. I'm, uh, right near what, uh, the national cathedral, the, the zoo I'm 10 minutes from the white house. And, uh, Washington has, uh, been our home for, uh, uh, pretty much my entire working career. And, uh, the kids were raised here and, uh, we were just talking my daughter and I, uh, yesterday, uh, that there's a new book out that kind of says, you know, Washington is not just the swamp. Uh, people came here and still do, uh, because they're drawn here by the public service and the desire to do public service. And, um, uh, I, uh, think I'm part of that in my family. My brother preceded me here. Um, he was a civil rights lawyer, uh, in the, uh, when it really, really tough times and, uh, sent back to our home in the south. I'm originally from Memphis, Tennessee, um, and, uh, uh, came up north for a study and public service. Tell me about your background, not a, as an artist. I, I know we know you through the PO art gallery as, as a, as a sculptor, but your background not as an artist is equally as impressive. Well, thank you. Um, I'm, uh, was very lucky because my parents prepared me not only as an artist and a dancer, but, uh, intellectually, um, to care about the rest of the world. And if you will trying to make a better place for, um, our community and our kids futures. And, uh, I ended up, uh, after graduating from public in Memphis, uh, going to college, uh, in the Baltimore area Galcher college, it was a woman's college at the time. Um, I'm of that generation where, um, not only was there segregation, uh, when it came to Jim Crow laws, but, uh, very much, uh, segregation when it came, uh, at Le uh, to, uh, the choices of, of, uh, colleges and universities I could attend. And I was lucky enough to go to a woman's college, uh, which I think encouraged me and gave me even greater confidence and, uh, ended up, uh, at Harvard in graduate school. Um, and then got my PhD, um, at, uh, Fletcher school of which is Tufts university jointly administered by Harvard and Tufts, and, uh, had a journalism career, uh, at the same time I was doing journalism writing, uh, starting back in college, worked at the new Republic at the Atlantic monthly published there. Uh, and most of the, some of my proudest, uh, that I'm most proud of articles were on women, uh, womanly image, character assassination through the age of, as kind of a Teles, if you will, uh, trying to push the barriers. And I went off as a journalist as a young, mid twenties, uh, to the middle east, um, traveling all alone writing. I ended up coming back, um, and, and deciding, um, with my, uh, husband out, uh, uh, that Washington was the best place for us both to, uh, to be doing, um, our professional lives. So I worked on the hill, uh, as a Senate, uh, uh, what we call legislative assistant to wonderful terrific gentleman, um, uh, who was the father of birthday Gaylor Nelson, Senator Gaylor Nelson, and, uh, uh, actually did some of the very, very first work on the issues of, uh, arm sales and, uh, the concern that, uh, that I had ultimately, uh, the Congress that law law got passed. It said that major arm sales should be reported to Congress before they, they get outta here, uh, and go, uh, become, uh, enmeshed in our foreign policy and our commitments, uh, overseas. And, uh, I, uh, that took me, he basically, uh, to, uh, the Carter administration's, uh, attention, uh, because that was one of his issues that he ran on along with human rights and foreign policy that I was also writing books about. And, um, I was appointed very young, um, to be a commissioner at the us international trade commission and ended up chairing it there. And, uh, it was a 10 year, uh, assignment and Ronald Reagan by then was, uh, in, and I was pointed by him to be the chair of the international trade commission, which at that time, when he was in, made me the second highest ranking woman in the go. So I, uh, you know, hit some, hit some glass ceilings, got through some, um, I won't tell you about the times that I didn't get through. Um, but I keep persisting. And, uh, at the time that I was, uh, doing all of that, I was also sculpting I, uh, and, uh, I, I kind of made that a secret because I didn't think I'd be considered, you know, I don't know professional enough if I was also had this artistic side. And, um, but the time came after nine 11, um, that I wanted to cast many of my terracotta works in bronze. I wanted something that when I saw those buildings come down, I just, somehow I remembered, uh, there was a clip from the New York times of a remnant of a foot. I think it was a Dega that had been in one of the office buildings, um, that came through, uh, the disaster and because it has been cast in bronze. And I said, and, uh, I, I had a friend who, uh, had a boundary and I said, I'm, I'm gonna start casting then. And that then made me want to, um, uh, come out, if you will, publicly as an artist, I, I wanted to, um, cover my costs, uh, uh, of the investment in the casting, and then, uh, demonstrate with all the, uh, requirements that some sometimes are needed, um, you know, to, to have that dual professional credentials. So I understand that even your husband at the time didn't know that you were had begun sculpting, is that right? No, that's absolutely correct. You're absolutely right. It was, it was really quite hilarious. I, um, because all through college and graduate school and my journalism and the first five years of our marriage, when we were both working on the hill, um, uh, I did not sculpt. And, um, I, I, uh, uh, it came the time that, um, once, uh, I became pregnant and then gave birth to our first child at Gabriel, um, I had the opportunity to quote, stay home, uh, and get my dissertation ready for the book that I published, water's edge, um, domestic politicians shaping American foreign policy. And while I was, uh, home, uh, the first thing I did, um, besides nursing our son, our baby son, Gabriel, is that I went out and bought clay and I had no model. All I had was the mirror, and I basically would observe myself nursing our son in front of the mirror. And so my first sculpture, um, with that clay was this, uh, little, uh, piece. And, um, Paul came home and saw what I was doing. He is still going to the office and he was just stunned. He had no idea, but I hadn't stopped since, and I, my son is now 40 something years old. And, uh, so, uh, that, that was the, uh, uh, and Paul has been in incredibly supportive my husband of all of my work, not only just helping me carry stuff, but, uh, he he'll tell me sometimes Paula you're finished with that piece. Cause sometimes, you know, I I'm, I'm always trying to get my hands back on something as long as it's still wet you. And, and if it's terracotta, You've had pieces that are displayed really at very prominent places, businesses, schools, um, you've done pieces, I think, Nelson Mandela, bill Clinton. How, how have you had that type of access? It's really quite Well. Um, the, the bill Clinton story president, uh, Clinton, um, our family has, has known him, uh, since the time he was the governor down in Arkansas. And so he and, and his family, um, uh, have we've grown up, you know, the kids grew up, uh, together and when they moved to the white house, um, you know, that meant, uh, that, uh, my son and, and, and, and, and Chelsea, I, I watched her grow up and they, they would come over. She would come over here as a matter of fact. And, um, and they would play in the clay the, to come and I still have pieces, actually. I just thought of that, uh, upstairs, cause they're beautiful, um, that they did together, uh, with my clay, I guess. And, um, so, um, I, uh, uh, that, that kind of explains that story and the Mandela, um, was one that I did really, um, thanks to a commission from a school in South Carolina, uh, on wood prep, prep school, they have this beautiful garden, uh, and by the way, I think sculptures, you know, you should think outdoors as well as indoors. Um, and I, I love to put my, my work in nature and have it talk, you know, to nature. Uh, and they have this garden of the, of the great or the righteous. It's just an homage to different, wonderful people in history and they wanted a Mandela. And so I was contacted, uh, and did it, uh, I did not, uh, have the honor of meeting Mandela. Uh, I did have a lot of photos, uh, of course throughout his life, which makes things complicated because you have to choose as an artist. What is the expression? What is the age? What is it that you're trying to express as well as getting a likeness? And, um, uh, one of my very dear friends gave me a lot of photos that she had taken because she had had the honor, uh, of, of meeting with him. And so that's, that's explains the Mandela if you will. And then I, you know, I've done, uh, friends who federal judge, uh, years ago, he was a very young federal judge and he wanted to have a piece, uh, uh, for posterity. And, uh, we did that over extremely hot, long weekend here in Washington, DC when he came down with his family and they went off and, but he, and I just worked together, uh, to get the piece of, of, uh, Mark Wolf, who was the federal judge now, uh, in a retired status, uh, in Massachusetts. And do I understand that you also have a special connection with another very famous, um, Supreme court judge that recently passed, uh, Oh, the RBG, that's a crazy story. Uh, yes, I had, you know, I had met her and again, you know, I've been extremely fortunate, um, and to be, um, uh, in a position to meet and, and know people, um, and, uh, see them, uh, personally and meet them, uh, and, and some, you know, converts with them, uh, friends in some cases with them. But, uh, what happened with the, uh, RBG, uh, really is thanks to the Portland, a gallery. Um, I had done a piece, uh, which I called Ruth it's it's in the other room. And, uh, it, it, it's a, a lovely piece, a full figure. And, um, these pieces, I don't name all, you know, ahead of time. I, don't kind of with exception, of course, bus and portraits, you know, I just do. And, um, and then they speak to me and then I name them. So this one spoke to me. I said, this looks like ATIC woman, young woman. This is Ruth. This is Ruth from the Bible. And she's gleaning the wheat as you read about in the Bible. And, um, she and the head fell off. So I said, well, I love this head. I'm going to cast separately, just the head. So I had something called Ruth a study. So a study means that, you know, it's one P part of a, a body, or it's, you know, a or something, it's a study for a bigger piece. And I had a cast in bronze and, uh, it was in the gallery at Portland art gallery and Missy, uh, at the gallery, uh, one of your wonderful artists, um, there done away, uh, Missy apparently loved it and because it was Ruth's study. And I think it was a time at the time when, um, uh, Supreme court justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg had just passed away and she interpreted it, it, I say, as it being Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And I love the fact as an artist, which, and a wonderful artist that she is that she wanted to buy that piece for herself. And, but she thought it was RBG. So then that gave me the idea. Okay, I see that, uh, she is medic and there have no doubt about that and has this character, uh, that inspired me to think of her as a biblical, uh, CRE you know, uh, character. I had, we have little glasses now and put a kind of a, I'd forgotten the word they use for the, like a necklace that the female Supreme court justices have adapted for their, um, uh, um, uh, robe, uh, around their, the neck. And, uh, we now have that piece called RBG. Uh, and it's a kind of a separate item from Ruth, a study long story. I'm sorry. Well, I love that you have so many different types of connections in so many different areas. I mean, in our very short conversation, you've talked about foreign policy. You've talked about connections with presidents, you've talked about Maine, and it seems like you draw inspiration from multiple different sources. I do. I do. I'm. I, I, I, um, I don't like silos. I, I don't, I, I, you know, there are people who say, you know, I'm a medical doctor, and I can only tell you about this specialty that I have, which to your ears. And, um, that's just not me. And as far as I'm concerned, life is just filled with intersections and I love to connect them. I love to connect people and I love to connect ideas and, um, uh, uh, with the sculpting, uh, back to the, the point, you know, I am relating to history. Uh, I am relating to all those mostly male, uh, sculptors who came before me, but I am putting my personal mark and, and I want to leave a legacy. So I really appreciate history. Um, and, and when it comes to society, I mean, I think we have a responsibility to think, not only about ourselves and our kids and our grandkids, but our neighbors and our greater society, and even more now in this tech digital world that we live into. And so, and I just groove on new ideas and new inputs and making connections. That's my forte. I connect and I see connections with people just don't see it. And sometimes times, particularly as a female, you're not taken seriously because of that. You're supposed to kind of stay in your, in your, um, in your, not your groove, but in your category and, you know, get those credentials. And I, I paid the price on those things. I did, I got my credentials from an academic, the point of view, I got my credentials from, from, you know, my policy world point of view. I've got my credentials from my artistic point of view, but it's the connections, that's where the creation comes. That's where your con personal contribution goes to the, to, to, to everyone else. And, um, uh, you know, I'm, I'm very proud when people say to me, Paul, I just love the question you ask. I never would've thought about that. And I like coming outta left field, as they say. And, uh, and, and, and, and doing that. And so, yeah, thank you for, for, you know, pressing that button with me because, um, I think that's, I'm proud of that. Well, I can, I can absolutely relate. I know that as a family medicine doctor, we have to be kind of, as I typically say, kind of horizontal and vertical, we have to always be thinking about things as I know that your daughter does as a pediatrician. Um, kind of not only focused on the individual, the family, the community, you know, education, health, all the intersections. So I think you and I have similar mindsets in that area. Yeah. That's so, I'm so happy to hear you say that. Uh, and I can't wait to introduce you. And again, as I said, I love making the personal connections too. I feel like I'm like, uh, one of those old fashioned telephone, the operators, I don't know if you remember, you're too young, but there was a Lily Tomlin skit where she was an operator with the, the headphones, and she's pressing pulling in the, in and out of the buttons and the wires to connect people. And she's saying Mr. Veto, Mr. Veto, that was gore vial, the famous, uh, author at the time, but she was making those telephone connections and I love to get people together and, uh, and have them riff off each other and learn from each other. And, uh, I think it's a little bit of my southernness too. Um, the PE that I, that I like to make those personal connections. And of course, there's this famous thing about Jewish geography when Jewish people or not Jewish, uh, um, basically, uh, start talking to, oh, you're from that town. Do you know? So, and so, and it's not just, you know, the town in, and you're here in, in the United States, it's the towns from which you came and that's, I wanna say something about, um, our American community. Uh, and I really have to, because we are at a moment right now, um, where we're pulling in intellectually, emotionally, politically, uh, socially to what's going on in, in Ukraine. Um, we here in America, we are a nation of immigrants. And if you don't appreciate how much that shapes our American psyche, no matter what state we're from, um, or political, uh, you know, party we might associate with, uh, or be associated with, we are coming from somewhere else. And so we, as a nation are always going to be in all interested, concerned, telling people what they ought to be doing in other countries. And, um, uh, that, that was really the contribution I made in my, my academic work to explain that you can't understand our domestic politics, if you don't understand, and our foreign policy, if you don't understand those immigrant roots or those religious ties that we have. And, um, but that goes back to making those connections between and domestic, you know, between ourselves personally, and, and again, getting back to the art, uh, that's a universal, that's a universal desire to create. It's a universal desire and a personal one on my part. It that I share with the universe to take my hands and tangibly try to shape something which, um, uh, gives an, an inspiration, which is an intangible, um, which try eyes to speak, uh, without using words to, uh, the viewer, uh, and, um, and, and communicate that way as well. So it's interesting, we're communicating, thanks to, you know, the digitization of, of, of, of world today, 2022. Um, and, but we're talking about universal thoughts, uh, that, that go back forever. Yesterday. I was at a, a lecture at the, you know, the ambassador of Norway. I was invited to go to hear about the Arctic and the melting of the Arctic and climate change. And we were talking about, uh, the study of, you know, hundreds of thousands of years ago here on earth and, you know, and what we've gone through. And so I just think all of these things, I don't know, they relate inside my head and hopefully they come out in some way, um, uh, you know, in, in our conversations and our connections, um, verbally, uh, and also tangibly with the sculptures. Well, I don't wanna let you go before asking you about the piece that's behind me in the studio today, which is, uh, a dancer. And I'd like you to tell me a little bit about this. Wow. Um, you are really in indulging the total egotistical, I mean, anyhow. Um, so the dancer is the dancer. I have always danced and my parents, you know, I bless them and appreciate the fact that in, in Memphis, Tennessee, they made sure that their kids at every, everything they possibly could, uh, and that included the art school and dance. And so I started out as a, just a, as a Tumblr, as an Acrobat, and then, um, attended, uh, ballet classical ballet classes. I was the youngest member of the Memphis civic ballet, but I, I, I, I didn't, uh, but mother made it very clear. I was going to college. And so ballet was not going to be my career. And, uh, uh, but it is continued to be my love, my passion, um, among others. And I'm happy to say that my, uh, granddaughter is, uh, who's now 14 has been at the school of the American ballet, uh, you know, the, of the New York city ballet and I'm kind living vicariously of course, through her. And, um, uh, the piece that, uh, you're talking about, uh, I did without a model, and it's very, very hard and, you know, it's, it's very hard because, you know, you wanna get the anatomy, right? You wanna get the feelings, right. But you know, the whole idea of trying to defy gravity, um, which is what ballet does, and still deal with the engineer realities that, um, you've got to have a piece that's gonna stand up physically, uh, in some, in, in, in your home or garden, uh, is, uh, a challenge. And I had to use mirrors and basically contort myself every once in a while, you know, because the pieces, you can see she's in a, you know, an air best, but in, in, in an attitude is what it's called when your knee is bent. Uh, and it's in, it's in the back and she's on one foot. And, uh, so talk of about acrobats. I was, you know, in the, in, in, in, in my studio, you're doing a little bit of that. And, uh, you know, I would take pictures of ballerinas and try to use that, but it's, it's not the same as having a model, but so that's the piece. And then I had this idea after doing it. Um, it was a little much related to this piece, um, which is, um, ma of Rodun and where the, I decided after I had done the piece that she needed to be wearing something, because she was sitting very prim and proper. And so I kind of came up with this idea of a hat. Uh, I've never seen any, any bronze where, you know, you can take the, the hat off or on the same thing with the, uh, the ballerina that, that you have. There's a little skirt that I made. Um, but you know, there's a snap there, you can take the skirt off just like you can take the hat off. And the skirt idea came from Dega that came from Dega, as you know, the, the little dancer, the famous little dancer with her arms behind her back standing, uh, in a wonderful pose, um, that he Dega or somebody, they there's a, a, both a skirt. And in the, her braid her hair in the back there's, um, cloth made almost like, um, gauze, um, cheese, cloth, um, ribbon in her hair, so that I kind of got that idea. And, uh, sometimes I like it with the skirt, and sometimes I like just to see the body and the anatomy without the, uh, the skirt. Um, so it's, it's just, uh, a long story. I hope not too long. I'm enjoying all of your stories, and I know that people are going to want to see your pieces. So I, I hope that they are able to make the trip up to the Portland art gallery because I, in person they're, they're quite impressive. They're lovely also on the website, the Portland art gallery website, but, but in person, they're in person, they're impressive. And I can't tell you how many times I've actually gone into the gallery myself and said, oh, look at this. It's wonderful. Oh, look at this. That's wonderful. And, and so I've appreciated the time that I've had to talk to you today about the work that you do and actually meet the person behind the work. Well, I appreciate the time meeting you too. And I realize since I talked about, uh, this piece, and I didn't mention this one, which is Genevieve, who we've been talked about at the beginning about the, the doctor, this is the doctor as a child. That's, uh, when I didn't have models, my kids were, were submit. I submitted them to the, the, the requirement of, you know, sitting still Aren enough to do that. So this is the doctor I was telling about telling about earlier. Uh, so thank you. And I agree with you when I come to that Portland art gallery, I just love seeing my fellow artists and all of their beautiful creations in a gorgeous setting. And thank you for your, uh, I considered hospitality every time I, I go in. It's a treat. Well, thank you for telling me that your daughter has been watching over our conversation because now we've, uh, you've enabled me to make that additional connections. So when I actually meet her in person, I I'll say I've seen you before, just in a, in a slightly different form. Amen. That's perfect. I haven't seen you before yet. I've been speaking today with artist Paula stern. And as I've mentioned, you can go to the Portland art gallery to see her work or go to the Portland art gallery with website. I'm Dr. Lisa bale. You've been listening to, or watching radio Mae today with artist Paula stern. Thank you for coming in to my virtual space. Thank you so much for having me. It has been a pleasure, hope to see you soon in person.