Tyler School of Art Grad Joins Portland Art Gallery and Quickly Ascends to Gallery Manager

Lisa Belisle: Hello, I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle. And you are listening to or watching Radio Maine. Today, I have with me one of our colleagues from the Portland Art Gallery, Emma McHold Burke. Nice to see you today. Emma McHold Burke: Lisa, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Lisa Belisle: Well, one of my favorite recent stories was when you were in the gallery, and all of a sudden, my voice apparently came over the gallery systems speakers. And I think I said something like, "Hello, this is Dr. Lisa Belisle." Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. I was actually playing the podcast and our Bluetooth speaker is hooked up to the speaker in the gallery. And I think the even creepier part was you just said, "Hello." So, your voice boomed through the gallery. And these poor couple was just standing there. And they were pretty spooked, I could tell, but I paused it right after that. And they were looking around. And I had to explain to them like, "You know, this is kind of what happened." And then they shared with me that they're staying in this haunted hotel. And there was this ghost tour that spooks them the night prior. So I really, really got them on accident. Lisa Belisle: So, I was actually an anonymous ghost then in this particular case. Emma McHold Burke: Yes. Lisa Belisle: Yeah. Well, I'm thinking that it was almost like I was calling to you to come, be with me on the radio show today. Emma McHold Burke: And I will take that call. I'm happy to be here. Lisa Belisle: That it worked out okay. Emma McHold Burke: It did. Lisa Belisle: Did they tell you what hotel they were staying at? Emma McHold Burke: I think it was up north, probably closer to Camden. So I think that it was more that they were on the balcony and a ghost tour walked right by and the stop was their hotel. Lisa Belisle: So they went into this not realizing that this is what they were getting out of their stay. Emma McHold Burke: Right. Yeah. So I really spooked to them at Portland Art Gallery, but we had a good laugh. So I think they'll still come back. Lisa Belisle: They'll probably, yeah. That's good to hear. Well, I remember there was a story that we did once when I was working for the magazines. And I believe that there is a hotel, I think in Lewiston, that has some strange backstory like the people that we had working with us, they were staying in a crypt or something like that. I think Maine actually has a fair number of spirits wandering about. Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. Well, I shared with them when I was quite young, I grew up going to Boothbay, East Boothbay in Ocean Point. And when I was really young, probably about seven, I went on a tour of Burnt Island. And there was all of these ghost stories that I was told touring the island. And there were very beautiful parts as well. And people, I'm doing their laundry outside and making pies. But all I really remembered, obviously, was the scary stories, and it scarred me for quite some time. But, nevertheless, I'm still in Maine and loving it and didn't scare me too much. Lisa Belisle: Yeah. So you're back again because you grew up in Maryland, right? Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. So I grew up right outside of Minneapolis. And then even though I was in Maryland, I've been coming to Maine all my life, to Ocean Point. But I'm settled here for the first time in my life. Lisa Belisle: Tell me about the art school excursion. You have a degree in painting, I believe, with an art history minor. Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. I went to school in Philadelphia at Tyler School of Art. I was really lucky to spend four years learning about painting and art history and getting a wide range of lessons and learning and meeting professors. And while I was in school, my family moved to Yarmouth where they are now. Lisa Belisle: So why art? What was it about art and painting and art history that really caught you? Emma McHold Burke: I think I've always felt that connection which I think is a lucky thing to be able to say. I think not everyone gets that opportunity to just know this is something they care deeply about always. My grandma is actually an artist. And my grandpa was a surgeon, but he can draw as well. And he taught me when I was quite young how to draw an apple. And we would look at it and dissect it and learn to draw. And so, from a very young age, I had been drawing. And then, what I realized through school was that I really also connected with learning the history of it, and learning the stories behind the artwork, and then beginning to apply that to some of my own paintings and my own conversations with my peers as well. Lisa Belisle: You spent some time in Rome when you were going through school. Tell me about that. Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. So, I was there for actually a year which has also a really ... I was very fortunate to have that experience. I think most people get to go for a semester which is still an honor and such a lucky thing to have done. But I feel extra lucky to have been there for so long. So I was living actually right by where the Pope is living. Now, I'm blanking on the name, the Vatican City. Yeah. And so I would walk from school through the Vatican City to my home in Italy. And I was a painting major there as well. But I was learning a lot about natural materials. So, one of the projects we've got to do was I built a fresco up in a small town in Italy with a materials class I was taking. There's so much art in Italy that I was so close to which was really special. So I was walking around and my school was near six Caravaggio's so I could just pop into the churches, and see them and spend some time with them. So, I was really lucky that I got to live in Rome and really see it for what it was. And studying abroad is such a romantic thing to get to do, but I think I was glad I got to stay there for so long because it just came a real place that I could live and stay in. Lisa Belisle: Did you learn how to speak Italian before you went over? Emma McHold Burke: I took a little class online. So, I didn't know much. I knew enough to not get poked fun at at the sandwich shop. But that was part of why I was so lucky I was there for a year is that I picked up on enough and I could understand what people were saying, which got me through. And I think what I realized is that when you're coming into someone's country and you don't speak their language that English just so happens to be a language that a lot of people speak. But if you can put in the effort to really just say through a couple things in Italian, even if you're stumbling through, that it's appreciated. So, that was my favorite part about just learning and giving the deli guys a hard time, but in Italian, it was pretty fun. Lisa Belisle: Did you live in a little neighborhood and get to know people that were around you? Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. So, I lived right by this little grocery store. And everyone would have those like rolling carts with your groceries in them. And I was right by a market outdoor, so I became regulars in those places and then around my school as well which was right on the Tiber River. A lot of people, I think, were traveling during that time which I did a little bit as well too. But I really made a point to hunker down in Rome and get to know people in the places and spend time there. Lisa Belisle: For the fresco that you created, you were using natural materials like crushed berries and other objects. Was this meant to be a fresco that would last a long time? Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. So, it will be there for thousands of years which is pretty crazy. It's in this little hilltop town called Casperia. And the process is that you're putting plaster on to a wall that already exists. And then you're painting into it while it's still wet. But the pigments, we had made which is really all you're putting into the wet plaster was through some natural materials, like saffron is a good example. We would take berries and melt them down and add vinegar to stabilize some of the color and then add that, too, as well. So, there's a beetle called cochineal. And when you crush up the shells and add some either liquid to it or oil to it, it makes this really beautiful and deep red. So that was also something we were using. And Lapis is a historical way that blue was made. So our professor was bringing in that stone and we would crush it up and add it to this fresco. So, it was a learning experience in multiple ways. Obviously, I got to build a fresco which is a very cool experience, but also learning about being engaged with it all the way through. So making those materials, making the fresco, making the painting, and then having it live for quite a long time. Lisa Belisle: Was your professor or the school, was it something that they were known for? Do they do a lot of natural materials work? Emma McHold Burke: It's a class that's actually offered both in the international campuses and on-campus in Philadelphia. I think my professor just had a specific liking to it actually. He's from America but he's lived in Italy for a long time now, I think over 20 years. So it's kind of his own research. So, he has this funny relationship with cooking and art as well. That's what so much of that is. So, he would teach us. I guess a good example is he brought in little squid and we dissected them in class. We pulled out the ink sack, let it dry, set it aside, and then we had all this squid leftover. So he gave me a recipe on how to make risotto. So, you take the squid and kind of this like dark, really rich risotto with the squid in it as well. And then we would come back and make paintings with the same ink. So, it was just his passion that he taught to us. And I think it was a specifically special class where I was taking it. Lisa Belisle: It's interesting because we're so technology forward these days. And we are doing so much with the science around creating color, but you're talking about going back to the roots of color really. Emma McHold Burke: Right. Yeah, there's this recipe book actually by Giannini. And it's like a handbook. And it has all these recipes on how to make glue and how to make your own canvas and how to make your own tracing paper all from those materials. And it was definitely a unique experience. But it's things I'm still using today in my own practice, so yeah. Lisa Belisle: Tell me about your art practice now. Emma McHold Burke: Actually, I have a studio at Running with Scissors in Portland, Maine. And I have some good friends that I'm sharing a big space with in the warehouse-like type building. And I'm making paintings that are a bit about sewing, a little bit about alternate materials. And I'm using this old way of just doing a canvas with rabbit-skin glue. So, it's see-through. So, I'll go to Martin's and I'll grab some fabric. And it's mostly transparent and sew it together, and then paint on top of it. So it's mostly just about playing and materials and experimenting and just having fun with it. Lisa Belisle: So just sewing a canvas, what does that mean for those of us who are not art majors in any way? Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. So, a canvas, pretty much, the basic structure is you have the stretcher bars which are the frame behind it. And then you have just a raw canvas or really any material, so linen is another example. And then you put this acrylic white coat on it which is what we normally see. It's actually just like a marble dust. And that just primes the canvas. So, your paint will sit on top of that and not soak into the fabric behind it. So it's just a way of prepping the canvas to be painted on top of. Lisa Belisle: Why rabbit-skin? Emma McHold Burke: The difference is that it's see-through actually, so rabbit-skin brings the canvas really tight. It's almost like a drum. It has a shrinking ability. And you can reactivate it with heat because it's a biological substance, it's not permanent. So, it just gives me a little bit more room to play. If something's not working, I can just sand it off. And even the friction will make it sticky again. Gesso is also obviously really wonderful and a lot more stable than rabbit-skin glue which is why it's more widely used. But for me, the rabbit-skin glue just gives me a little bit of freedom to make some mistakes and then play with them. Lisa Belisle: So, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're probably not vegan. Emma McHold Burke: You know what, I actually don't eat meat. First my own reasons, I don't eat meat, I eat fish, and eggs, but I also don't eat dairy. I just have some dietary restrictions. So that's a comment I've gotten my whole art career is I'm fascinated with these more biological textures that show up. But I'm not a big meat-eater myself, so yeah. Lisa Belisle: I also don't eat meat and I also eat fish. So I think you're right, everybody has their different reasons for doing things. But I wonder if you ever encounter people who are vegan who say, "Rabbit-skin glue and crushed beetles," and do you ever have to have conversations about that? Emma McHold Burke: Absolutely, yeah. I think the most interesting part about utilizing these tools or these parts of the animal is that they're being used purposefully and respectfully which is what that class was kind of all about. So, using all of the parts of the pieces and noting that everything has a use, even if we maybe don't use it like that anymore. So another example is my classmate whole fish like a fish cooked at whole, had beautiful meal that we all shared. And then we took the bones and boiled them for a long time, and they make a gelatin that you can use as glue. So I think that when things are being used anyway, you can accept that if that's part of your life already and repurpose it so that you're being mindful of all those places that those things can actually be useful and honored because they are so useful. Lisa Belisle: Which is traditionally the way that animals and, really, plants were always dealt with anyway was with respect and honor and understanding that they were ... it was part of their lifecycle. And this is kind of almost a gift that they're giving human beings, really. Emma McHold Burke: Exactly, right, which is why I feel so lucky to be here in Maine where I'm surrounded by so much nature. I'm living with a couple of people who know a lot about plants. And a project we're working on is we're going to make a cyanotype which is when you treat a fabric or a canvas with a certain chemical that becomes reactive to the sun. And so, you can create this solution, treat a fabric or a canvas or paper, and then place objects on top of it, and let it sit in the sun. And when you take those things off, those bases will be white and the rest will be blue. So it's like making a photograph or a print but with those plants. And so, being in Maine, I have plenty of foliage to choose from and identify and learn about while also making a piece with my friends which is also really meaningful. Lisa Belisle: I also think that plants are really very important. And even though I practice medicine where most of the medicines that we use are pretty far removed from their plant origins, I still really enjoy growing chamomile for the chamomile flowers. And we have coneflowers which is Echinacea essentially. So I think that there is this strong sense that many people have that it's important to connect back to what was once a bigger part, I think, of our living existence. Emma McHold Burke: Exactly. Yeah. And I think also being in Maine, I never spent a full year here so I'd only seen that summers which obviously are gorgeous, but Maine has so much more to offer than just that. So, beginning to learn what's in season and what plants I'm seeing and why I'm seeing them, and the relationship to what's happening around us has been so interesting. And I think I'm in the perfect place for that to dive in and engage with that. Lisa Belisle: At the same time, you were also utilizing social media and specifically Instagram for a really interesting project. Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. My good friend and I, Liv Pancheri, who's I know from school have started this page on Instagram and this little program where we're connecting with other artists who maybe wouldn't connect otherwise. As I'm sure, everyone feels like during the pandemic, connecting has been hard and even more important because we can't connect in other ways. And we realize that there's this group of people that are fresh or fresh-ish out of college and are missing some of that structure and connection that college provided us, especially being in the pandemic where all of the classes are in Zoom. So, even if you are in school, you're just not seeing people or talking to people in the same way. And my friend and I shared that feeling of like, "I just want to talk to someone about my work casually and judgment free and put the feelers out there with some of our other friends." And people now, even farther outside that circle and people aren't feeling the same. We have meetings on Zoom every month where people show their work and ask for some feedback and we get to just talk with them. And there's been some really meaningful moments where someone I met in Portland, Maine has joined the Zoom and someone that I knew in Philadelphia is now on the Zoom, and they're connecting about like a dance or something that just wouldn't come out in a painting class together. So it's been really, really special to be the facilitator for those kinds of conversations. And we're hoping to continue and expand it as well. Lisa Belisle: What's the name of your Instagram page? Emma McHold Burke: Well, we're The Studio Wall. And Liv Pancheri is running it with me, and then our Instagram is on The Studio Wall. Lisa Belisle: So this is something that people could look into if they wanted to. Emma McHold Burke: Absolutely, yeah. And we've been doing other programs as well. So, we're having monthly or quarterly shows on our Instagram. And we're posting other things of like what's happening in the art news and maybe discussion questions around what is an artist statement. So, we're just hoping to engage a variety of people and just casually talk about kind of like this, like what is art and what can it be, and how can we engage with it? Lisa Belisle: It seems like feedback is a really important part of progressing as an artist. And I know that it should be an important part of pretty much everybody's progression in every field. But it's very difficult, and especially now where we all want to be very sensitive of other people's feelings. And we all want to understand where everybody's coming from. And at the same time, it's helpful to get really honest engagement from people. So, how do you strike that balance, understanding how to be respectful and sensitive, but at the same time, offer information that might be useful to other artists? Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. I think that was a skill I learned in school, actually. I was having critiques all the time which is the benefit of school. And I think that has really strengthened me as a person. I think that it's helpful when someone says just how they're feeling, kind of talking about just your core feelings. When someone says, "This makes me feel blank." And then you can ask them. So, it's fun to be the facilitator to want to hear someone say like, "I don't know. This painting is making me feel, it's like a little wonky." That I get to just step in if someone say like, "Oh, cool, let's talk about that. And let's figure it out." And like, "Let's name what's making you feel that way." That way, it's not personal. And I think that's my favorite part about setting this up kind of outside of a school environment where there's no pressure. You don't even have to have gone to school at all to join. I actually met someone at the gallery last week who is in high school and looking at colleges and just need some help with her portfolio. And I was excited to tell her like, "Hey, I actually know where you can go for that." And it's without judgment and we're not trying to make anyone feel bad, obviously. So I think the most exciting part about this scenario is that people are volunteering to have that feedback, and actually saying, "I need help," which is my favorite part, too. People who aren't afraid to ask for help and then people who also aren't afraid to give it. And I think that if anything were to hurt someone's feelings, I would hope that someone would say, "Hey, that hurt my feelings." And then we can go from there just because everyone is so valid to both say like, "I need help." And then also, "That's not the help I want," so, yeah. Lisa Belisle: Do you ever find this feedback skill useful when you're working at the gallery? Do artists ever asked questions about their work, or about placement, or about shows that you're putting up? Emma McHold Burke: Absolutely. Yeah, I think, as an artist, your work is so personal and it's kind of your baby. So, when it's going into a space, you want to know it's taken care of and going to be appreciated. And the gallery obviously does a great job of that, but sometimes artists will ask like, "How was the reception of that piece? How did the show go," which obviously, they want to know. And we're happy to tell them, "Hey, people are really engaging with this," or, "Maybe you could do a work that's a little bit brighter." And it's to everyone's advantage, I think, so that the artists can have their work best received and their skillset best received. And then, the viewers have something that they can also engage with. So, I think that both giving and receiving feedback is really helpful, just for everyone involved. Lisa Belisle: Is it a delicate balance between staying true to your art and also creating something that others would want to buy? Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. I think that's a pretty complicated question. Personally, I'm pretty early on in my art career. And so, I haven't found that balance. But working at the gallery has been really helpful to see like, "Oh, what people are interested in." That keeps going or that keeps like people are looking for something like this and getting a good sense of what the market is looking like. I think what I've realized is that, actually, you don't have to sell everything you're making. So, if you find something that is really working ... for me, right now, it's this Instagram Studio Wall project, it's really engaging with people. So that's where I'm going to focus my time and see how can I market that and ask people to engage with it. And the painting is just for me. So I think that it's a balance, but I don't think you have to sacrifice either one. Lisa Belisle: Do you think that's common that people who create physical art also do other types of things? They work in a gallery. They have an Instagram business. Is that something that you're seeing more and more? Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. I think the interesting part for me is being a young person actually, my professor told me that he drove a Domino's car until he was 30 just to make his practice viable, as a viable option for him. So I think not only are artists used to multitasking to make things happen for themselves, but that also artists are creatives just in everything they do. So whether it's making the work and selling it and bring it to a gallery and finding representation or it's just having some hobbies on the side, that become these really expensive projects just because you are a creative. I think it's all part of the gig. I think I'm seeing a lot of that around just even people in my studio, have different avenues and are always trying new things. And that's really exciting. Lisa Belisle: One of my favorite stories about you, Emma, is that you came to the gallery at the very beginning of the pandemic. And you essentially said, "I'll do anything. I'll volunteer. I'll do whatever you want." And this was at a time where a lot of other people were drawing back and just for very personal reasons, meaning to not put themselves out there in the world more, but you just jumped right in. I mean, I think it's been an interesting ride for you. So, what is it about your personality that caused you to step forward and really seek out that additional experience where others maybe didn't ... that wasn't a comfort that they had? Emma McHold Burke: Yeah. Well, I think I sat in a really unique position where I was new to Maine. So, I moved here in March from Philadelphia unexpectedly. So, I didn't know how long I was going to be here. And because I didn't really know how long I was going to be here, I was willing to do anything. I didn't know anyone. I just knew my family who I obviously loved dearly, but needed a little bit more connection outside of them. So, I just needed to get my hands on something. I think I was lucky to have the option to just ... I was living with my family. So, I could just jump in anywhere and didn't have many needs. I just wanted to do it. And I was lucky to have that. But I think I also was just having to leave the network I had in Philly and not having that same network here in Maine yet, I was just dying to meet other people and get back into the art field and make a space for myself in one way or another. Lisa Belisle: Yeah, that's really tough. So, the pandemic is already hard enough and leaving Philadelphia is already hard enough, and you get both at the same time. And you're trying to have a life for yourself up here. Emma McHold Burke: Right. Yeah, it was pretty hard. I spent a lot of time rollerblading in Yarmouth at 9:00 p.m. because my family went to bed at 8:30, and I wasn't used to that. So, there was a lot of that, but also, that's what the gallery was for me, is that was how I made friends and actually how I made most of my friends. I was joking earlier that that's also how I found my apartment actually, through the director's daughter, was subletting a room. And now, my roommates are some of my good friends. So, the gallery gave it all to me. Obviously, I got to engage with people and they, they liked me. But that background really helped me to get my foot into the Portland scene and meet people, and establish a life for myself that now is super full of joy. Lisa Belisle: I'm very glad to hear that. And I think that it says ... I think it says something about, probably, about your family as well, that they would even create the space for you not only to live with them but also to just be your own person. Emma McHold Burke: Exactly. Yeah, I think I come from a family of really tenacious people who aren't afraid to fall which is what I really admire. But when you do fall, you let yourself fall and you accept it. And you can grant yourself some grace there. And because you're able to do that, you also are able to get back up. So that's something my Mom has really taught me and has always reminded me as well even when I forget it. So, in that hole like moving to somewhere and not knowing anyone, it was really hard but I just let myself say like, "Yeah, it's hard." I'm in a little bit of a unique position and it was funny telling people, "Yeah, I just moved here in the pandemic." And then say, "Oh, wow, that's really hard." And that acknowledgment, too, just let myself fix up like, "I am in an exceptionally hard position. And that's okay." And now that I've accepted that, I can also accept that it's not forever and I'll get out of it. Lisa Belisle: Why did you choose this piece behind us, this Petrea Noyes piece which I believe is called Swimmers 1910. Emma McHold Burke: It is. Yeah. So, Petrea, I think, connects to what I was talking about a little bit earlier about these alternate materials. She has this unique way of working her ... she's using this interesting process that is taking these photos that are in this archive, from I believe her grandparents, and manipulating them, and editing them, and altering them. And then, this is actually an old way of working for her, but printing them out quite large in, in this case, I believe it's on rice paper, there's this texture in the piece that's from that certain kind of paper. And then there's this high gloss medium on top which catches those ripples in the paper and accentuate some of the patterning in the design. So, I chose this piece because not only is Petrea working in a really different way of making, but she also connects to what I was just talking about of being adaptable and tenacious in her making. She has this funny story about this printer she bought and it's just not working the same way because this large printer is no longer working for her. And obviously, it's quite frustrating that it won't work but she's still making paintings, they're just different. And so they're a bit smaller. And they're bringing in some other painterly designs that are new for her. So, regardless of those tribulations or technical difficulties, she's just making regardless. So, that's why I brought her in today. Emma McHold Burke: To me, I think that what's interesting about it is you're not quite sure how it's made. So, it kind of asks you to spend some time with it and really get in there visually. There's this mystery of how it's made and then a clear image of these swimmers. The date to me references that archive of photos that she's referencing from and using in her work. So, it's this interesting lineage of family documents that she's making her own and then making quite large as well. So, for me, personally, I just feel like it's engaging both maybe in my art history sense, it's engaging that part, and then also, as a painter in a medium sense, engaging that part as well. So just drawing from each pieces and bringing them together pretty seamlessly. Lisa Belisle: And when I look at it, it's obviously a picture of what appeared to be two male figures wearing old-fashioned swimming outfits, but it almost looks as if they could be wearing masks. I know that there probably aren't, it's probably just a shadow. But there's some sort of interesting mysteries, some sort of story that I start to tell myself about what this could possibly be. Emma McHold Burke: Yeah, I love that. I think that's actually one of my favorite things of working at the gallery is hearing other people's interpretations. Yeah, I think there's something hidden in their faces that gives them this ambiguous, not quite sure who they are. Maybe that's also their outfits, the swimming outfits we don't see anymore. But I love that interpretation because I think that says a lot about what we've been through the last year, and how that's affected how we're perceiving things. So, to hear that this reminds you of our reality today is really exciting, actually, because of maybe how old this actual photo is that it's still so relevant and reminding you of our life around us today. Lisa Belisle: It's also interesting because if you look closely at the photo, even though there is shadow around their faces on their necks, you could still see their mouths underneath in there. And at least one of them seems to be smiling. Emma McHold Burke: Right. Yeah. Well, it reminds me almost of those ... there's those jokes of like, "Oh, we're going to all have sunburn on our faces and not wear our masks on." And there's that funny outline except it's in reverse. Yeah, but there's those smiles, so maybe it's that persistence and just assertion that we're going to make it through, and we're going to make the best of it regardless. I think that's a good interpretation. Lisa Belisle: Well, not being an artist, myself, and being in medicine where I hear a lot of stories, for me, the story is also very important, not only the story of the piece whether it's my interpretation or whether it's the story that comes from the artist, but also the story of the artists themselves, because that really connects me personally with the artwork. I think if I was a collector or if I had a more, I guess, objective view of art, then I might feel differently but I'm not any of those things. So when I've had a chance to sit down and talk with people, it makes me want to be the collector of kittens. And I want a piece from everybody. And I want to be able to create this little family of artwork in my home because I know and love these artists and the work that they do. Emma McHold Burke: Right. Yeah, that's what I think we're experiencing in the gallery as well. And that's my favorite part about having worked there for a little bit is knowing all those stories. So, it's really fun when someone points to a piece. A story that comes to mind is those Eric Hopkins' Fish.