You've Been Framed: Tony Cox of Casco Bay Frames on Owning a Framing Business in Maine

I have with me in the studio, one of the co-owners along with his wife, Heather of CA bay frames and gallery Tony Cox. Thanks for coming in today. Thanks, Lisa. I'm excited. So you and I are, uh, fellow Mainers. You grew up in SSO. I am. Yep. And you went away and came back exactly. And, uh, it was one of those things where I left for a few years and I just really missed the state and the seasons and the, the history of Maine and came back about five years later. So back in about 95 And you were out in Wyoming for a Little bit. Yeah. I decided to be, uh, follow my dream to be a ski bum and went out for a year and stayed for five and taught skiing and coaching and landscaping. And, and then I came back. You're still pretty outdoorsy. Are you? I really do enjoy, enjoy the state and getting outside and skiing, hiking, canoeing. Um, we live, uh, not too far from the Kenny back river in Bodenham, so we get to do a lot of outdoor things and bring the kids out. So you have two daughters, correct. And they're, uh, 19 and Twentyish 18 and 2018. And one's a senior Mount air high school in son where I spent part of my time at school. And then the other one is a sophomore at Bowden college. Well, thank you for sending her to my Alma mater because of course I'm a huge fan fellow polar bear. Wonderful. I'm she's getting a great education there and also at Mount erat. Yeah. She really loves it and is close to ha great to have her at home and during the COVID and she was only 30 minutes away. So it was nice to have her there and she really loves it. It's a great community. Yeah, absolutely. So I practice up in the Toso area and also a little bit so Brunswick, which is funny cuz Brunswick and Toso, very different, very different. Yeah. It's kind of like living here in Yarmouth and people will say, so did you go to Falmouth high school? And I'll say, no, no, no Falmouth and Yarmouth are very different even though to the outsider. They're pretty, pretty close to the same. Brunswick's a great spot. I think it's done. They've done some really nice things lately with the restaurants, uh, art galleries, um, it's just a beautiful community. And then top sum is a little more working class and just a quick Jo over the river. Um, but I really enjoyed growing up there and we actually, after we got back, uh, did some, we lived there for a while, renovated some homes in the top sum area. It's really changed a lot. Hasn't it? It really has. Yeah. And I think it's a, it's a great spot for young families and people to, you can commute to Portland up to Augusta. Nice. Yeah, that was what I found when I was in Brunswick. It was a lot of Brunswick patients, but when I was in SSO, it was people all up and down I 95 cuz it was very close. They could get to Augusta, they could go to Portland. So it ended up being really a nice mix of people actually in both practices. It Really is. So your, um, gallery and frame shop is in Portland though. Correct. So we bought the shop about 18 years ago from uh, Heather's parents, uh, Mike and Georgia. So they were looking for a reason to move back to Maine, to be close to their kids and had owned some small businesses and decided to buy the picture frame shop with no art experience and did a lot of, um, great upgrades computerized it, um, did some facility, upgrades, computers, things like that when Heather and I were about to have our second child in 2003, they were gonna sell it after about five years and approached us. And we thought with my art and human resources background and her, um, practicality, and it was a great opportunity, allowed her to stay home with the kids, me to work in Portland. Um, and it's about a 35 minute drive from work, which gives me a home is about 35 minute drive from work, which gives me a little time to unwind and listen to the radio. And so it's worked out really well for us. So, so tell me about the combination of an undergraduate degree in psychology work in human resources, but also a studio art background at Skidmore. So tell me about that fascinating combination of things that has made up your skillset. Um, well for a while I was at LL being and human resources, which loved the company, loved the people. Um, it was really inspiring talking to people. I was in a, um, seasonal hiring position. So having those skills, bringing that into the picture frame shop, along with the hands on, you know, we do some light carpentry where we're building the frames and cutting the frames and my wife and I had done some home renovation sort of flipping houses up in the Midco area. It really worked out well. That for me, being able to do multiple things during the day, you're talking to employee, you're working with a customer, you get to go out back and sort of wind down and build some frames and put some things together, problem solving. Um, so retail really is psychology and, and um, owning a business is really the human resources. And then I like the hands on part. Um, cuz when I did the studio art at Skidmore, it was ceramics wood sculpture photography. And I really enjoyed that hands on part. So it allows me to do a little bit of that creative thing. Do you, do you still do any of that? Don't do as much photography as I would like, but now it's more, you know, taking pictures with my phone or gardening, getting out in the backyard, building, you know, rustic, things like that. Um, really it's my outlet. So I know that we have behind us a, um, Cooper Dragnet. Yes. And he works with you a lot. Cooper has been one of our great clients. It's actually become a friend. Um, he was the art teacher. Toson at Mount high school. Both my girls went, um, I'd love to see his work develop and he is a, you know, probably one of my favorite porn, art gallery painters there's many. Um, but his work is just it's, I'd love to see it evolve over the years and we've also hung a lot of his art at client's homes. Um, he's very easy to work with. He's uh, just a, a fun, enjoyable person all around. So that is an interesting thing. You're bringing up the idea of someone's evolving art that, you know, they're not the same person when they first pick up a paint brush as correct a person they become over, you know, 10, 20, 30 years of creating. Yeah. The, um, one of the most exciting, interesting things about our business is seeing all the different artwork that comes in and you'll see a fledgling artist bring their artwork in and then 10 years later, uh, be a very successful artist, represented all over the country. Um, and that part of the job picture framing in general, um, makes it creative for, you know, makes it inspiring for me and for my, my framers and designers because they get a break every 30 minutes when someone comes in to interact them and talk about the art, would they get it? Why they like it. And then we get to work with them to pick up the framing and matting that will work with that piece also taking into consideration their home. So if you're looking at, for example, this piece behind us, um, and I'm assuming you did this frame because yes we did. If not, that would be very embarrassing for, but, but I'm sure you did. Okay. Good. Cause it Looks great. It's the 9 0 1 profile from Vermont. Okay. Okay. So tell me what you were thinking about when you framed this piece or the people that you were working with, what they were thinking about. So for Cooper, it's really just giving it a nice clean look such as this piece here and not taking away from the art. Um, this is a tree called basswood this wood here. It's actually in Maine, it's a Lindon tree. Um, a lot of people carve with it. Um, and this is actually an unfinished frame. So this is in its natural state. And I think with his paintings and just having a natural wood that's from the Northeast just really brings the whole piece in together. I like this story behind the piece, like to, we do like a barn board frame and we do a main maple, uh, which I think is for me very inspiring to have that something sourced locally. So then people get the story, not only of the piece itself, but also of the frame around the piece. Correct. So that's, that's really interesting cuz I, I know that when I've seen pieces before a frame does make or break piece often, but I don't often think about the wood itself that goes into making the frame. Yeah. And I think one of the things we've seen it even more with all the local, you know, the recent supply chain issues that we're having, you know, problems on these really from a really large frame company might be outta stock because it's coming from overseas. But we have a couple frame companies, one as a local woodworker in hollow, well our gardener. And then we have this frame for examples out of Vermont. And then there's a great company out of Boulder, Colorado that does hardwood frames. So for us it is one feels really good, but it also allows us to give a solid date to our customer to be able to meet that because we know it's it's available. Is there a conversation about sustainability in this type of, um, in, in wood, in, in your industry? Yes. It has become ever more important. Um, what a lot of the larger frame companies, so we work with probably about 10, um, but we work primarily probably four. A lot of them will have a sustainable line and I think that's really important so that we can pick out frames, um, that have that. Um, I would say we picture framing industry as a whole has some room for improvement. The glass for example, is coded. So unfortunately it's not recyclable. So those are some things that I'm very interested in looking into ways that we can make, do a little better. Um, but for the most part, uh, it's wood it's metal, um, and the paper's usually backing. So, um, we still use foam core, which again, I think there's a lot of room in picture framing as a whole. The good thing I can say though, is that the quality of all picture framers, um, and the materials you should expect a piece to last 15, 20 years very easily. So it's not, you know, someone's not redoing their art every five years. So I do feel like that has something to go forward and we want people to be able to enjoy it for a long time and not have to worry about coming apart or fading, those type of issues. Yeah. That's an interesting balance, right? That , if you put something in plastic, it's probably gonna last a million years but then also we'll never leave the environment and then you put something in wood and you want it to last long enough so that you don't have to use more wood in the non existing future. Exactly. So, yeah, I, I feel like this is something that when I talk to people who are in, for example, the home goods industry, um, or flooring, there's just a lot of this conversation going on and it's, it's very similar it to be a balance. Yeah. It's important that, you know, we try to like limit the waste that comes out of the shop by reusing pieces, donating leftover map board, just donated some of the children's museum the other day, things that probably would've gone into the dumpster, if someone hadn't taken it. So I really do enjoy that local part of it, you know, making the relationships over the years. So when you take a piece into someone's home and you're helping them, I'm guessing kind of located a little bit and then actually put it up on the wall, in the right place. What types of things are you taking into consideration? Yeah, that's a great question. Lisa. The, um, we do probably, I would say three to four home visits per week, which will be bringing, um, art from, uh, either that we framed or art from like the Portland art gallery, um, or just come into their home and hang art cuz they've moved up here. Um, what we're considering is, you know, height, um, does, is this wall big enough for this piece? Do you, you know, so we'll work with the customer go back and forth. Do you like it here? Or should we try it here? So a lot of that, you know, back and forth, uh, with the client. Um, and then obviously the technical part, we have the correct hardware. Is it gonna stay on the wall? What kind of wall is it? Is it plaster? Do we need to pre-drill that type of stuff. So we, we have all that experience and knowledge so that once we put it up, it'll stay up and if they ever do move there won't be a huge hole in the wall. Um, but we can go when we work with designers, um, it's a real, you know, Hey, where do you want this base? We'll put it right up here. They work with homeowners. They might want a lot of input or they might just say, Hey, what do you think? And we can offer as much advice or as little advice as they like. I really enjoy that part of the job. How about lighting? Does lighting ever come lighting To lighting makes all the difference in the world? Um, so for example, when you walk into Portland gallery, it's the pieces you, all you see is the pieces and in people's homes, I often look for the place where the light is the best. This is gonna get an afternoon light. Do you have a nice spotlight on it? Um, the people who think about the lighting, you know, whether they're renovating a home or moving into a new home, you can really tell because it makes all the difference in the world. Um, obviously we like to see an artificial light on the artwork just because of the, the longevity and the archival, this, um, as you know, you walk into the museum and there's never a piece in sunlight. So even with all of the technology today in UV filtering glass, if a piece is sitting in direct light, especially a print, it will fade over time. So, So is that a bit of a conundrum ever, the idea that you may need to put a piece under glass to protect it, but then you're potentially creating a little bit of a barrier, maybe a glare on the, on the light. How do you, These are some of the challenges that we, we deal with every day and part of the excitement of the job, the glass adds a lot of protection, but it will take away, especially in glare. So we have a product called museum glass that will be both low glare and UV protection. Um, a lot of people have had experience when they walk into an eyeglass shop and they say, would you like the UV? Would you like the low glare? And after a while, you're looking at this bill with the eyeglasses and going well, is it really worth it? But once you get the eyeglasses that don't reflect the headlights, when you're driving at night, you're like, wow, I can't believe I lived without this same thing with museum glass. It is probably a third more, uh, in cost. But once you get the museum glass, people will come back and start bringing their other pieces saying, can you switch this for me, Tony? Uh, because I really love the museum glass. So a lot like other businesses, the quality, the high end products are actually worth it. And I think as I age, I understand that it's worth spending a little bit of money on the nice thing about oil paintings, such as Coopers, um, and acrylics. Um, they don't have to be under glass, which is nice. So when I am in a client's home and they're saying, I'm looking for a piece to go here on this landing by the door. Why don't you look at some canvases? Cause I think that would be really, um, a good way to, to be able to see the art because why have art when you can't, when you can't enjoy it when there's glare on it or, um, and the other thing is too, is in some situations, a bathroom, uh, where it's moist wore a very highlight area, purchase a piece of art that you really like the image, but that you're okay knowing that it may degrade over time. So, uh, replaceable. So the types of things that need to go under glass, would that be watercolors? Yes. Pastels, Watercolor, pastels, any sort of print photographs, um, are all good examples of under glass posters. Um, anything, uh, a lot of, we put a lot of documents under glass. We also do a lot of shadow boxes of people's keepsakes jerseys, uh, christening dress. Uh, we did a rattlesnake skin, which was very interesting. Uh, it was for the cryptozoology, well, it wasn't a rattlesnake, it was a it a snake. They found in Westbrook for the cryptozoology museum. Um, and that was under a big box with Plexiglas front. Um, so those are all protected and preserved and allow you to enjoy them without them getting, helping them degrade slower. Do you find, you said that sometimes people will come in and they'll bring in a piece that was done in a different way. And they'll say, can you do this the way that you did the last one is, is that a common thing that people find, oh, this has really made a difference. I wanna kind of keep upgrading all the rest of my work. Yeah. One of the great things about a picture frame industry is that they're always looking. So at the picture framing manufacturers, um, they're always looking at trends white, is it, oh, like for example, we're seeing a resurgence in Oak crimes, we're seeing white be more popular. Um, so the frame companies are seeing those working with designers, talking to folks in that industry and seeing where things are going. And then there'll be like, Hey, we have a new line of Oak frames or white frames. And so we, so when they, so folks will come in and say, I've, I've redone my room. I've redone my home. Um, we wanna move this piece from here to another. And then one of the first things we talk to them about is tell us about the room it's in often they'll bring a picture or a paints watch, and then we can work with either the matting or the framing to help compliment that. What are some of the biggest mistakes you've seen people make with pieces? You don't have To name any names. Nope, no names. Um, number one, mistake is putting a photograph print piece of work on paper, up against the glass. So part of our archival framing is always putting an airspace between the glass and the artwork. And we do that a couple ways. We can put a little acrylic space underneath the lip of the frame to create that space, but the matting you see with the little bevel and that's very typical creates that airspace as well. So that is probably the number one mistake we see is, um, that the other would be art. That's not encased. So there used to be, uh, a trend of these, uh, frame lists or clip frames. It would be just a piece of glass and maybe a piece of foam core. And then there'd be little clips around it and that's bad because all the outside moisture and environment is coming in the sides of that piece there. So that's another thing we see, but definitely number one is the, um, glass up against the yard. Also, if a piece is a, the frame's too thin and it's been hanging on the wall for a long time, it will start to feel the weight. Maybe the bottom corners might be coming apart, uh, because the frame just wasn't sized correctly for the piece or hung in a manner that was helping it come apart, I guess. Is it ever possible to do restoration on pieces? Do you ever work with people who do that sort Of work so on the artwork or the frames? Well, Either work or Either one. Yeah. So we do a lot of, uh, work with a local paper conservator, um, who will, um, I would say two to three pieces a week where we might refer, uh, a client to them. You have an old document that has faded, um, uh, a piece of artwork that has been stained over time. Um, and she has methods to bathe, restore, lighten, neutralize, those pieces, um, paintings. We don't see those as much, but we have some, uh, people to refer, um, for that, including someone who works for me, who has a side business and painting restoration, um, frames. There's a wonderful person in Portland who does frame restoration, which is a whole art in itself. So you have a really ornate frame and a little piece is broken off, but the rest of it's perfect. She can take a mold of a piece, duplicate it and recreate that missing piece, like in a plaster type material. Um, so what we, we sort of stop at the rebuilding. You bring in an old frame in and say, oh, this was for us, you know, much bigger painting. Can you cut it down? Oh yeah, we can cut it down, rebuild it, put it back together. But when it gets to actual, uh, cosmetic work to the frame, we refer, we hear some great people to refer, uh, our clients to. So, you know, your, you know, your niche and, you know, when to move people to the different specialties yes. To deal with other different issues, it sounds like Exactly Very similar to medicine. Exactly. We do everything, uh, with your artwork. Um, you know, and as far as framing goes, we can deliver, we can install and then we refer people if they need to ship or if they need to have the artwork restored or scanned. We often, um, when someone has a really interesting or a really, um, photograph that's really meaningful. Uh, one of the, uh, suggestions I often use is why don't you get it scanned? Um, and then, so you have a digital copy and we could even frame the digital copy and you can keep this original, you know, in a nice archival folder, uh, in a safe place in your home. Um, because we do understand that artwork does degrade and you want to keep these things for as long as possible. So you said that there's a, there's some psychology involved with retail and having done a little bit of retail myself and having done a lot of psychology over the years in various jobs. I know that sometimes one of the issues that comes up is, uh, two people come in with something and they don't agree on the approach to whatever that is. Oh, so maybe it's a couple, two partners. Maybe they have a piece that they really love. Maybe they have a Cooper dragon net, and one of them wants it to be in Oak. One of them wants it to be in Linden. How do you approach that? I think that is one of the most entertaining and challenging, I guess, challenging. Isn't the word, because we always come up with a solution. So a lot of communication, a lot of asking questions about what do you think, what do you think, and trying to read the client in where they are going and trying to direct them into something that you feel will work for both of them. Uh, maybe someone says, well, that's okay. And then you say, okay, let me go back to the wall and grab another sample. And maybe this is, or they're looking at a pink mat and maybe you go just a little bit in the softer to the peach colors. It is. It's amazing. What's the, one of the greatest things about picture framing is you spend, you could spend 10, 15 minutes with design, you could spend an hour and a half. And during that time you build a relationship with the client or clients. Um, especially if there's two of them and they're, they're debating back and forth and you're working with them to come up with a solution. And then to see them come back in three or four weeks when we have the piece done and to just see the excitement and glow on their faces, because we're showing them a small six inch sample. And we're trying to explain to them how this is going to look and the size and they come back and they're like, wow, we didn't expect it to look that good. So compassion, patience, um, and just understanding that people are gonna have different opinions. Um, you know, we want to respect and honor their wishes, but it's also our job to say, I think that's a great color, or I, I think that's a good method for framing, but I, I would suggest maybe this glass or this frame or this different color here, uh, would be better for this reason. And then in the end, obviously it's, it's their choice and we're there for them. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I think what you're describing is honoring where they're coming from, but also honoring where, you know, they want to go and maybe they don't actually know how to get there. They think they might know how to get there, but that's, you know, a little bit better, cuz you've been that road before Done done it for a long time. And um, all nine of the employees, the current employees are artists who have their own mediums. One's a photographer, one's a clog artist, couple painters. Um, they all have that eye as well. So I think having the gallery, which is their artwork, uh, attached to our framing studio allows a customer to see, oh, that's Michael's piece. Oh, and Michael's helping me, Michael, what is that frame you have on your piece? That is that really for us, I think is a, it's a great combination of things we're in a strip mall, um, which, uh, you know, I have just learned to embrace and it's great because we have a wonderful location and great parking. Um, but it's not the type of place you picture walking into to be working with professional picture framers and artists. But once people walk in, see the warm welcome feeling that we have. Um, we know a lot of our clients by name, we have a really great return rate for people who come back in and, and they know a lot of us. Hey Tony, Hey Mike, Hey Holly, how are you doing? Um, so I feel like for us, it's a great combination of being convenient, but then having this little space where people, you know, they're going to Hanford, oh, we just wanna stop in and see what's on the walls. So once they discover this little hidden gem, I like to say in the, in the Hanford shopping Plaza, uh, they come back. Well, I mean, to be clear, you're actually near a very nice Hanford you're you're right. You're right near back Cove. I mean the water's right across the street, we have a water, so exactly. Yes, exactly. Where Else can you get that? Yeah. And people could, I think pick up a sandwich too while they're over there looking Exactly, Exactly. Get anything they want over there. Yeah. So That's right. Um, do you think that art, when, in, when it comes to your field, are people looking at it more from a design standpoint or from an emotional standpoint? I think there's a little of both. Um, definitely when people walk into a gallery, they get a feel for it. Um, and peop things will catch their eye and they go to that. I do feel like from, um, the interior designers point of view, which we work a lot with and we do a lot of corporate work. Um, they are looking more on the design sense of the piece, you know, is this a, you know, contemporary piece, is this traditional? Um, I feel like we can add some with the frame. So like for example, this Cooper here, you know, if we put a, a large gold frame on it, it's gonna look completely different and feel much different to the client. Um, so I think there is a little bit of both depending on the client. I think we see a lot of personal, um, clients who bring in their, their artwork for themselves is really emotional. Um, and that's why we want to be extra careful assure them that we're gonna be really careful and use our, our correct techniques, um, and care with this piece. Um, and with the designers, it is really, you know what we're doing 14 pieces, you know, how did these frames all complement the look you're going for in the house? We have a floater frame on this one. We have a traditional frame on this one. And do we do that with the color? Do we do that with the texture of the frame? So we can add that part to it, to add some of the design part, Isn't it also true that by actually putting a frame around something you can create and I'm using air quotes, art out of something that maybe not everybody would've previously thought was art at all. That is really a fun part of the job. We had a woman who had ordered some pottery online from a local artist, I shouldn't say on, yeah, I guess it was online. Um, but a local artist from the Bodenham, um, shipped her a package and had drawn a thank you and a picture on the outside of the cardboard box. She brought it in. So that was one of the things she was gonna frame. And the wonderful part of that was okay, how are we gonna make this cardboard box part look really good? Uh, we had a pizza box the other day. Um, so that is the fun part. And it's so great to see what the clients are thinking of when they come in with a dish towel with there's so many pieces I could think of and we can turn that into art. So is it a really big frame on a small piece? Is it a large mat? Do we float it? Do we, um, you know, create a box? Um, so that is a lot of just a really great, great part of the job. Yeah. I think, you know, when I was, when I was running today and thinking about my conversation with you, I was thinking that, that there's this huge metaphor around the work that you do, right. That it framing is really everything it is. It's, it's relate to the box, you put around something so that you can focus on what's inside. Yes. And so you're doing that literally, but even somewhat figuratively, correct. When, when you're doing this with people's pizza Boxes, correct? Yes. That is, I mean, that really is, it is frame is part of the art, um, and whether it's sticks out and becomes a focal point with some of the, you know, more simple items, or it is in the background, like with this Cooper piece and, and just the bass would floater, um, that's the balance and that's, that's a fun part of it to come up together and, or work together with the client, um, to get to that end. Yeah. It, and it reminds me also of a conversation that I had recently with someone about, um, performance, that there are pieces of the performance that you don't necessarily think of as art, but those are also part of the art, right? So you are not just, it's not just a technical or mechanical part of it, what it is, but what it really is, is the art of the work that goes, that's correct. With the art that's in the work. Yeah. So it's all part of the dance. It sounds like exactly. Yeah. Nailed it. Well, on that note, I'm gonna encourage people to go visit you over at CA bay frames and gallery. Thank you. You and Jarret wife, Heather. And I'm gonna thank you very much for all of the wonderful work that I know that you have framed for, um, my household, because I know we have quite a few of your frames. Thank you very much and place. And also all the wonderful work that you are doing for the Portland art gallery. Yeah. It's really been a pleasure, um, talking to you today and working with all the great people at the Portland art gallery, and often on my lunch break and bring something by to the gallery, drop it off or pick it up. And I just, uh, I have to tell myself to leave because just looking around and I just get so inspired by all the, the different main artists. And so thank you very much, Lisa. Thank you. I've been speaking with the co-owner of CA bay frames and gallery, and this is Tony Cox. I hope you take the time to go visit him over at his location. And I hope that you have already had the experience of having something framed. And if not, you certainly should.